usausausausausausaor is it land ofthemightyweshouldntannoy

[puts hands on Sheriff's shoulders, with exaggerated articulation:]I implore you... to reconsider!

 

Please don't make me extend my vow to my computer screen. It would be messy and embarassing ... particularly since I work in an open plan offfice.

 

I'm sure jingoism isn't something limited to Americans. (I know you aren't implying that...Just felt it needed to be said.) Also, I love my country. I love what it stands for, the sacrifices that my forefathers made so that I may sit on my fat ass at the job of my choosing and type whatever the hell tickles my fancy. So, when a thread like this pops up, the only thing that keeps me from replying in the manner that Darkwalker did, is that I have been here a while, and I have learned to hold my tounge. There's a reason my father always said, "Don't discuss politics or religion with anyone you don't want to offend."

Now, I'm not saying that America is a land of milk and honey, where no evil stirs, and all other countries are filthy cesspools of corruption and decay. I realize the good ol' USA has her problems. I even will go so far as to say that Bush is being a little over-eager when it comes to Iraq. I think that he has a very strong case, but I'll admit, he has a little diplomatic spade-work to do before he charges in to Iraq, guns blazing. HOWEVER, on the whole, I am very proud of what my country stands for and I am proud of the ethics and morals that the Bush has tried to bring back to the now tainted¹ title of the most powerful man in the world. I'm done.





¹You know what I'm talking about. And who.

 

I think I knew how you'd feel (roughly), Retard. You do hold your tongue, better than almost any of us (with me being one of the worst, of course), but it has still come out on occasion. I think, because most of us here are friends and it is a pretty safe place to air your opinions (in general).

It's not like I disagree with you, either, on the issue of the USA being a great country, or the reasons it is great. I would hazard that you, Milo and I (despite my unfortunate predicament of being a Brit) would be in broad agreement on that.

I think most of what has made the US great has occured within its own borders. Freedom. Quality of life. Upholding various principles. The foreign policy of the US, and any country, will always be subject to question by other members of the international community. It is an inevitable outcome of so many complex conflicts of interest, coupled with the natural suspicion of people not in your own group.

In a situation where there is such a powder keg, or unusually strong conflict of interest, such as one country proposing a war against another, the international community is even more prone to take notice, for obvious reasons. I'd say we MUST question these things. We have to be sure before a war is started and someone needs to play devil's advocate for things to be truly questioned.

Sure, some of the questions cut a little close to the bone, and some of the people (US and otherwise) are more suspicious of Bush than you are. There are people who like to attack the US, too, and I think they need to get the chip off their shoulder. I'm definitely not one of them.

But, when you get right down to it, opinions like Darkwalker's stick out like a sore thumb. Here we are, discussing the issue - okay, someone people are sailing a bit close to the wind - then in he comes and calls everyone outside the US pussies and says we should be grateful to the USA, as if we should all be falling to our knees or something. That is just out and out bullshit, and that's what I meant by jingoism.

 

No, I didn't percive it so. ^_^ Everyone is entiled to their opinion.

 

Sorry to go on, but Retard, I'd just like to add that I have been re-reading the post you quoted and I think I might have inadvertently given the impression that I think you'd have to be a jingoist to agree with Bush. I do not believe that.

Bush is too gung-ho for my liking, and I think there is more danger in the situation than he apparently sees. I'd also question the morals of pre-emptive attacks (not that I'd rule them out, but I'm not too sure about them). But - I don't think people have to be stupid or nationalists to agree with his position. It's a difficult issue and clear right and wrong answers seem to be in short supply.

 

Very, very true. I especially agree with you on the part about foreign policy.

Most definitely not one of them.

I agree with you once again. Darkwalker had no business posting like that. And, in case my last post confused, I don't agree with him in that everyone outside Uncle Sam's borders are pussies.

 

Although it's a moot point, because I realize I was wrong, I feel the need to point out that I wasn't calling everybody in the world a "bunch of pussies". That verbal attack applied to the specific genre' of authors posting on this topic. At any rate, I apologize for the rude outburst. I get a bit upset whenever foreigners begin critiquing my country. Had I taken the time to actually read the majority of your posts before lashing out, I would have realized that many valid and factually based viewpoints were being shared. So in summary, and to reiterate, I would like to apologize to the fine authors of Tera Arcanum, and particularly the authors of this post.

 

Thanks for the apology. It's rare to meet someone big enough to publically apologise - especially on the web.

BTW, to follow up this topic, I was watching a news program tonight, showing a press session with Tony Blair. As much as that man gets criticised, he certainly was persuasive on the issue of backing Bush. He seems to have a flair for putting things clearly and diplomatically. If Bush had as much skill as a statesman, there might be more backers than just us.

Mind you, Blair is advocating pressure on Iraq over the UN sanctions, not a pre-emptive attack.

Another thing mentioned in the program was anti-US feeling. It's a bit of a milestone that a program like that has started talking about it, and I agreed with what they were saying. Basically, their point was that the world seems to have jumped on an unfair US-bashing band-wagon for slightly unclear reasons. My wife (who is American) and I talked about it afterwards and we both agreed we think envy has a lot to do with it, although lack of diplomacy by some Americans probably doesn't help.

Since my kids will probably be fully-fledged US citizens, this is a source of concern to me.

 

This whole situation in Iraq bothers me. As far as I can tell, the reason why Bush wants to invade is because they have "Weapons of Mass Destruction"... which, as I see it, leaves two possibilites.

1) The don't have any.
We invade them, pissing off China, Japan, NATO, and our few friends in the region, only to have us proven wrong.
This would leave the U.S. weakened diplomatically and the region of Iraq a wasteland - much as Afghanistan was. This means that an oil-producing nation is rendered destitute - there have been no roads built - even for a short distance such as ten feet - in Afghanistan since September 10th.
So, not only would we become even more unpopular than we already are, but it would also drive up oil prices.
Incidentally, this would ruin some of Bush's pals... but it would make others even richer.

2) They do have some.
We invade them, pissing off China, Japan, NATO, and our few friends in the region. Then, when it finally looks like our forces are about to win, Saddam realizes "Hey, we're going to lose..." and uses his weapons. That's what they're for, right? So there goes Isreal... and possibly even parts of the U.S.
Where does this leave the world? Iraq's in the same position as above, the U.S. is in the same position as above, plus there are irradiated or at the very least hazardous areas where there were once urban centers.

Either way, there don't appear to be any benefits - it's a lose/lose situation for everyone involved.

 

Re: usausausausausausaor is it land ofthemightyweshouldntann

double posted some how sorry read below for edited post....

 

Etalis makes a good point, on both views. However I don't think that mainland U.S. has any reason to worry about weapons of mass destruction reaching our shores. As a seven year Navy vet, who is still serving honorably, I can assure my fellow Americans that Iraq will be the world's largest pane of glass long before that day ever comes. Now as far as our overseas interest and Israel are concerned I'm not so confident that they have nothing to fear.

 

Hel Khat:

Can we leave the name-calling out? This debate has stayed (more or less) civil so far and I'd hate to watch it degrade, especially because all sides appear to be bringing up legitimate points.

 

Re: usausausausausausaor is it land ofthemightyweshouldntann

This is a simple one, Kill or be killed it has been man's way since the dawn of time. If we went back 2000 years I am sure folks were saying "Should Rome invade Eygpt? Blah, blah, blah. Shouldn't they leave the Gales alone? Blah, blah, blah"(Well HELLO they did stop and where are they now??? With a boot left for a country still praying that the Pope will save them!) The fact of the matter is that anyone in favor of peace now will be the first to say how shocked you are if the U.S. does nothing and 2 to 5 years from now Iraq hits Isreal with a nuc.

As long as there is mankind there will be no peace. We are made and bread to kill and it is not in our nature to do otherwise. If we do not kill them off now sooner or later they WILL find a way to kill US. History has proven Time and again that once a reconized "Power" tries to enforce peace another power comes along and either wipes it out or takes it's place (where is Britain today? weren't they number one less then a Century ago? The Sun never set on them now all that is left of there peace loving kingdom is little more then the Island they started on and they are fighting even now to hold on to that). For these reasons and more I hope my country is the number one power for thousands of years. That's right Iraq says they don't like us (for whatever reason I honestly don't care) then I say Bomb the HELL out of them before they can do it to US. The same for China, N. Korea and anyone else that thinks we should kiss their ass just because we are number one.


You think we suck then think about this without US, YOU wouldn't even be able to post messages like this cause there would be no internet! And IF by some insane chance there were an internet you would not be able to post your thoughts cause a country like Russia or China would have had you hunted down and killed for doing so. You all wanna talk about how much MY govenment sucks yet you don't want to think about how different YOUR country would have been without US.

Yup "Kill them all and let God sort them out." is the motto from this side of Hel and I ain't sorry for saying so and no amount of whining will make me regret saying so cause when it comes down to it I really could give a shit what country you are from I am much happier that MY country is number one then have YOUR country as number one. And I am even more happy that we are still willing to do WHATEVER it takes to Stay number one rather then roll over and wait to die like some of you would wish.

I love peace but I am not stupid nor is my country full of the idiots you would like me to think are leading it (if that were so then why send YOUR kids to go to school HERE?).

Yes we are a War Machine because: Men are killing animals and if you are gonna be in a world FULL of killing animals then you had better be the BEST at what they do and you'd better not let anyone else get good enough at it to give you or anyone else you like a hard time about it.


The only beef I have with my country is that we didnot take over that whole screwed up country when we had the chance. Bush Sr. left a mess for his son to clean up and that was stupid and weak. Other then that Kill em, and don't look back. Ask the UN for approval yes but if they say no,Fuck em and bomb them anyway cause if they could you can bet your ass they'd do the same to US.

It's OUR world if they don't want to play by OUR rules then they need to try and take over or die trying and that is what this is all about. Saddam is willing to risk killing all of his peps and die trying to get what WE say he can not have. He don't wanna disarm then he MUST want a war and if that is what he wants then let's play!

"Holy war" my ass Kill all of them Cause trust me, now or later, today or tomorrow everyone of you out there will be MUCH better off if we win this then if we LOOSE it. (this enemy you know is 10x better then the one you do not know)

Look at history my friends man is a savage and savages understand only one thing kill or be killed and that is what this is about. you may not like the smell of the coffe but it's called reality wake up and smell it. :hippy:

OK I edited out any refferance to flowers that may have offended. Also this post got posted twice by accident (I am still not sure how I managed to do that one) so I edited out the first one as this one had more corrections.

 

That is a word-for-word exact quote of... yourself. Four posts ago.

Why repost it just to change which parts were in bold?

 

Sorry I did not mean it to be taken as some kind of massive flame, Hel I can be a flower child most of the time. Anywho I am sorry

 

Dear Spam Khat, why did you feel the need to re-post this when you could have just edited the other one? Oh wait, I'm sorry, I forgot I was talking to the spam queen of the millennium. Just have to get that post in, only 851 more to go!

 

"spam queen of the millenium"?

Debate his points not his sexuality. As if his being gay has anything to do with his, in my opinion, over-the-top views.

 

Easy for you to say Milo you're the Minister Of Silly Walks!

 

I made the needed corrections thus I will not bow to your level nor will I take any offence "boys will be boys" after all. But I will say this "Hey babe take a walk on the darkside" (a darkwalk that is.) 8)