Misdemeanor torture

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by magikot, Aug 19, 2011.

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  1. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. My point is that a practice should not be branded as useless because it is proven to be ineffective in one case. I concede that there are probably other situations where this hot-sauce-cold-shower routine has been ineffective, but if disciplinary measures were 100%, they would only have to be employed once. There are bound to be some failures.

    For what it is worth, I used to have kids. Nothing works all of the time.
     
  2. Charonte

    Charonte Member

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    Stupid bitch, her kid is obviously a right little bastard as evidenced by the fact that she's had to develop a finite, fixed strategy to deal with it and yet the kid still keeps repeating the act and instead of fessing up is learning to hide it from others as the consequences are too brutal and the root cause of the event unavoidable for whatever reason.

    I work with kids every day and it's beyond belief how bloody feral and disrespectful the majority of them are. Children as young as 10 are breaking into buildings only to destroy property and nothing else, some as young as 14 are already locked up for rape and assault. Girls are putting on makeup long before high school begins, starting viscous rumours about each other and literally tearing each others hair out over the most minute of things. And then the parents justify it by defending their child’s right to do as they please without any life experience or guidance. Next they dismiss claims of the continuing sexualisation of children as barbaric, claiming that positive character development can occur through things as asinine as child beauty pageants and modelling. And the government protects them by claiming political incorrectness on any sort effective disciplinary behaviour ("thinking corner" - who's fucking idea was that?), condemning paedophilia as the worst of crimes [to which I agree] but still allowing children to wear skimpy outfits and flaunt themselves in the public eye without consequence to the parents. How do you think the current generation is going to grow up when one of the few constants in their life is immature, inexperienced young people who always present themselves in a provocative way, public or otherwise? What about the one after that? And the next?

    Honestly, it sickens me to the core to see what direction most of the Western world appears to be heading. The government needs to back off and parents need to start guiding their offspring more aggressively; teaching them right from wrong without forcing them into believing that cheating is the easiest escape as the kid in that video so obviously believes, something I would like to see the current "advised" discplinary actions achieve. License to procreate indeed.
     
  3. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    We used to give the I.T. guy at school so much shit. He looked like Dilbert.
     
  4. Grakelin

    Grakelin New Member

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    Man, Charonte, it's like you only post here when you want to be angry.

    Do the kids you work with live in a juvenile hall for delinquents, if you've got rapists to watch over?
     
  5. Charonte

    Charonte Member

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    Not angry, just disgusted. You really need to stop reading so much into my posts.
     
  6. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    I think the woman is just a bad mother - but not because of the punishments in and of themselves. If you have your kids respect and they care about your opinion I think sincerely telling them what they did was wrong and they shouldn't do it again should be enough; they'll feel genuinely guilty which is a far more effective deterrent than making them fear some sort of cruel reprisal. The fact that she has to resort to such unusual methods shows how incapable she is as a parent because as others have already said if the kid keeps doing what she tells him not to then he doesn't respect her enough to not do it, all he does is fear her.

    And no I don't have kids of my own, but still I'd like to think some day when I do have them I won't be an arsehole like her.
     
  7. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

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    This is dreadful, but it just occurred to me: hot sauce on the pee hole.
     
  8. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    That is the new wave, crystal chasing kind parenting that caused all this disrespectful children bullshit. "My parents disciplined me, I'll never be like them" kind of shit. I used to teach in England and I have to tell you there are kids that need a good belting to knock the dickhead out of them. The real victim in all of this is the teachers at school who have to deal with the kid's rebellious behaviour all the while the parents sit there and say "oh I could never say no to my child." Good on this woman for explaining why the kid gets punished, I believe that is way more effective than just beating the kid around like so many of you seem to claim she is doing.
     
  9. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    I think you're misunderstanding me not wanting to resort to cruel punishment methods as saying that I would let my kids walk all over me - which of course I wouldn't. I think the kids who need the dickhead knocking out of them are that way not so much because they are disciplined poorly but because their parents are likewise dickheads - though that's not to say that they aren't disciplined poorly. I'm not a dickhead and so my kids will learn by example to be normal well adjusted people, and when they did step out of line I would like to think because I have raised them to be respectful and mindful a stern talking to is all they need. If that didn't work then I would deploy harsher punishments but nothing bizarre like she did - and if they really stepped out of line I would hit them. I remember my parents hitting me a couple of times when I was younger and it is effective when used sparingly - they didn't hit me hard enough to bruise it's more of the shock that they did it that drilled into me what I did was really wrong. Severe methods should not however be the first port of call in parenting as with this woman, they should only be used in severe enough circumstances to warrant them. Also you can just say no to a kid and not punish them in such a weird way; saying no to a child and being firm isn't entirely related to how you choose to punish them.

    As to my parents disciplining me too harshly, that's just not true. They were fairly soft in actuality, but because they'd raised me well I still didn't turn out to be some sort of rebellious tearaway. They should have been harsher and I'm sure I will be harsher than they were when I'm a parent - I just believe that if you raise or condition your child to be respectful in the first instance then when you do call them on their actions they will feel bad about it rather than persist in being dicks; and if they do then that is the time to get harsher not just from the off.

    Do you really think a kid that young needs punishment like that? When you're that young as long as a child understands they're being punished it's fine - weird methods aren't necessary. You're right good on her for explaining to her kid why she was punishing him, but she could have deployed much milder methods and still have yielded the same effect. To a young child something like taking their toys away would seem horrendous; there's no need to do something that is genuinely harsh by adult standards.
     
  10. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    Kid probably has no toys. Forced to play with empty hot sauce bottles.
     
  11. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    Well... England!

    The casual physical and verbal abuse of children in English literature and film is disgusting, but not as bad as the reality. Most every englishman I've met is sorely fucked up by their dickhead parents repeating the abuse they sufferred as children and calling it normal parenting.

    Well, apparently it is normal in England, but it's still fucked.
     
  12. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Considering you pretty much said I was going to be a bad parent before this made me laugh pretty hard.

    And yeah too right England is fucked, just look at the riots. They show how young people here think it's acceptable to behave, and they wouldn't be acting that way if they didn't have shitty parents who couldn't teach them right from wrong.
     
  13. Jazintha Piper

    Jazintha Piper Member

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    Interviewing and observing the kids at my latest prac school has lead me to a few conclusions about why they act in a violent manner (re: England riots)

    1. Their parents simply don't care.
    2. Their parents are scared of their own children.
    3. There ARE no parents.

    On topic: the process that the mother used on her child is similar to many discipline processes I've seen and heard about. The child knew there was a consequence for lying and his mother constantly reinforced the consequences verbally whilst giving the consequences.

    However, the CONTENT of the discipline is extreme, but only mildly. Hot sauce is about as unpleasant as soap. Ice water is about as unpleasant as standing in the corner on one leg, or holding on to your earlobes with both hands (half-an-hour of that is REALLY unpleasant). The idea is that the content of the consequence has to be unpleasant enough to be a deterrent, without affecting their daily lives.

    I'm actually surprised she got done for child abuse. If that were the case, I should have been pulled long ago due to psychological abuse.

    The child screaming in the shower wasn't due to physical pain from the shower - it's guilty crying, in that he hopes that by resorting to infant-like behaviour, the discomfort will stop (learned from crying as a baby etc). Most children grow out of this behaviour by the time they are eight years old - I haven't grown out of it because of my parents' own discipline methods.
     
  14. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, the punishments are creative. However, if they're not working, the woman should find something else. The punishments chosen are more psychological than anything, not really causing any physical trauma, and are tied to sense memory. However, the depth of the trauma is up for debate, and really depends on the child. He thought he was going to be punished if he told his mother the truth, and so chose to lie. Is this true? Would she have given him the hot sauce? Unfortunately, being a young child, he might not yet realize what's right or wrong in an adult world, so if she punishes regardless of whether or not he tells the truth, all this is really going to do is tell him that he needs to do a better job lying.
    I got spanked growing up, and was threatened with a mouth full of soap if my mom caught me swearing. My mom was belted, and was given a mouth full of soap. Grandpa also ripped out her earrings and called her a whore...not to mention all of the psychological abuse he did to get her to lose weight (it worked!). Long story short, the abuse my mom went through made her a good parent, if not a little overprotective. She essentially vowed that she would never treat her children the way she was treated, and I grew up respecting her.
     
  15. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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  16. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the analysis of the disciplinary approach of this woman.

    If the child wasn't overreacting during the shower, I think he was reacting to something other than physical discomfort. I would have guessed he was crying from shame or guilt, but I can be sold on the more primal explanation.

    I agree with the theory behind this woman's approach, but there is something off about the execution. Verbally reinforcing the onus and fault of the child while creating an uncomfortable circumstance for him seems appropriate. Can somebody help me identify where she goes wrong?

    It seems that Jazintha Piper is suggesting that there is nothing wrong with the discipline we witnessed and that I just need to recalibrate my tolerance for juvenile suffering. This may be the case, but it is disagreeable.

    I'd really like to see the parent-to-child dynamic outside of this scenario.
     
  17. TimothyXL

    TimothyXL New Member

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    I got the living daylights kicked outta me when I was a kid, and I'm quite a bit better behaved then a lot of the assholes out there. And the result, oh so many autumns later? I depise and loathe my mother and have great respect for my father. Guess which one was responsible for discipline?

    Hell, my sister never received much punishment, and when she went through puberty, she was impossibly stubborn and didn't care for her family one bit.

    If it worked for everyone from the ancient Greeks to babyboomers, why wouldn't it work today?
     
  18. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it is more of an issue with us not being comfortable seeing conflict when it involves a child. I still stand by my original opinion that the punishment was just and executed sufficiently. The explanation reinforced the idea of consequences. I know some of you are arguing that it only teaches the kid to learn to lie better but that isn't a failing on the parent's behalf, that boils down to the kid being a little shit.

    TimothyXL I am guessing your father disciplined you due to the respect you show him. You may loathe your mother due to a repressed feeling of her not protecting you from said discipline. I take it your sister got her freak on with the football team during puberty then? Shame I missed it sorry buddy.
     
  19. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    Because now, children have rights. Even if they don't fully comprehend the rights, there are misguided souls willing to fight on their behalf, because shame on the parent who disciplines their child physically. I don't see the problem with it. I have more of a problem with punishment that instills guilt, or generally makes the child feel like less of a person. I wonder if the woman treats her biological children in the same way as she treats her two Russian wards. If so, points for consistency. Otherwise, I'd say she has a bias against kids from other countries.
    I was addicted to pot. Haven't "needed" it in about 3 months. Also haven't smoked it in that amount of time. I do get itchy without a good huff of chair, though.
     
  20. Jungle Japes

    Jungle Japes Well-Known Member

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    If you whip your kids and they still act like hell, or they become emotionally scarred, you're probably doing it wrong.

    I don't have kids, so take my opinion for what it's worth; I think you gotta start early, be consistent and be cool. When I first showed up to basic training, I learned very quickly that the drill sergeants would settle for nothing less than total and immediate obedience. They command, you obey, or it gets unpleasant very quickly. The longer it takes you to get it right, the more unpleasant it's going to get. They don't say, "I'm going to count to three", or "I'm warning you". I think it should be the same way with children. As soon as they are capable of learning obedience, that's the time to start making them obey. No warnings, no empty talk; swift and proportional punishment every time until there is no next time. But you have to be cool about it. Losing your temper with your kids or lashing out at them in anger is counterproductive. Getting mad at a child is like getting mad at someone on the internet: pointless. The flip side of that coin is this: you can't let your compassion for your kids get in the way of discipline. They're going to cry, they're going to beg you not to punish them. And if you let them off the hook because you feel for them, you are giving them negative reenforcement. There are times to be merciful, like when there is accidental wrongdoing, but when they are willfully and knowingly doing wrong, there has to be punishment or there will be nothing to discourage them from doing it again.
     
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