Military Tribunals

dont go bringing the nazis into this. thats just far to differrant. yes i no you wont think it is. i wonder what the usa would have done if germany conqued all of europe in the first few years like they couldve and were left to face the russians. nazis or commies?

you have to remember people fight for there way of life and some dont give up. i dont think you would, would you eros.
japan is an interesting case. they would have fought on no doubt. but how do you fight against nuclear bombs when you dont have them. surly you know of japans proud combat tradition. also they wernt a nation lost in the backwater like afgans are.
it was a differrent time then. the world was at war like it had never been before and people were desperite and scared. nuking someone wasnt such a big deal compared to today. just the mention of it gets peoples attention and conjures up images of the end. like in T2.

 

Why not bring the nazi's into it? i think it's a perfect example. Bin Lauden seeks only to oppress his people at the expence of the USA. He is an old man with delusions much like Hitler. He does not really care who dies for his cause even though he will claim to hate Jews and Americains more. Just like Hitler. The only difference I can see is that Hitler actual tried to care for some (not many) of his people. Bin Lauden don't give a F_ck about any of his except maybe to use them as bombs.

Like you said they want to fight for their way of life. When they wake up they will se that they LOST that battle over 50 years ago!!! They now can either be democratic with freedoms for women and the right to vote. Or they can keep on dieing for no good reason. The way of life that they fight for is DEATH, for there children and for their childrens, children. Do they care? No. Should I? Not at the expence of my own people I will not.

They want to die and kill each other that's their right just don't drag America and it's Allies into it unless the want to die faster...

 

Hitler actually just hated Jews and Negroes. Didn't have problems with other people though. They just happened to be in his way. Hitler wanted Russia and Poland for living space for his country. He was a psycho, yes, but bin Laden is not like Hitler. Hitler didn't want to bring down the free world, democracy and give rise to the domination of Islam worldwide. Superficial differences maybe, but still, Hitler and bin Laden are not alike.

 

thats true. the fact is that germany would have been happy to stop with europe russia or Lebensraum. just think. 2 strong stable nations side by side. the mighty usa and the powerful greater germania. but thats not the case and the war still continues in the middle east today. the scale is just smaller.

im shocked to hear an american say the enemy have lost and should give up. would you if you were losing. is it the american way to roll over and take the largest shafting in your lives if your losing. if i was one of bins boys i would keep fighting you till i died. like you said you want them all dead so why not go on till the end. force the usa to commit genocide.
another thing. in the usa you have the right to bear arms. you should then expect your enemy to aswell.

also im not sure that bin has a gas problem and speed habit like hitler did. hows that for piontless info.

 

They are exactly alike they are/were BOTH insane and they BOTH have/had a total disregard for human life....

(Hitler hated gays also, and if he had it his way we would all have blonde hair and blue eyes)

 

hitler and bin arnt insane. you might be. hitler was a freakin master mind. you know how he tried to take over russia and stuff. not your average fool can do that.
bins a fighter for his ways. your in the way just like he is for you.
one of these two are fighting a holy war and the other was fighting for the people of germany. the nazi idea wasnt a purely german one too. they just got there first. they tend to do that. thats why the german nation has been strong and around for along time.

i just now this is gonna head into the vietnam thing soon so. umm. baby killers.

*im such a nasty bitch*

 

Hitler was a fool and an idot. Any historian worth his salt could have told Hitler that the same exact invasion of Russia had Been Tried by Napoleon LONG before he was born and it FAILED. How smart does someone have to be to make the same mistake TWICE. Never envade Russia in winter Stupid little man.

He was insane and so is Bin Lauden. Bin Lauden even more so cause the idiot is not even leader of a country. The only thing he does seem to do well is run and Hide. (Something Hitler would never do, he may have been a monster but at least he was part Man.) You think Bin Lauden is a Hero? Cool lets see how proud you are of your hero when he has been blown to bits by forces HE set in motion!

He is not a hero he is a suicidal IDIOT with Delusions of Grandur. Heros prevail against overwhelming odds in the name of a greater good. He will not PRE-vail he WILL FAIL, and even if by some strange chance he did win he wouldn't even know what to do next!! That is a fool who fails to plan and thus plans to fail....

 

DuDe you need to find some better role-models in life. This Hitler and Bin Lauden Worship thing is pointless. The are both losers, find yourself some real heros.

Even Napoleon would be a better role model then those two. Try looking to leaders of your own country past or present. Don't idolize these guys they are truly not worth your time.

 

i so never said he was a hero and hes definately not mine. good on him for doing what he believes though.
but this dumb insane fool certainly has the strongest nation up in arms. remember it only takes a knife these days.
yeah i dont care what america dose or dosent do in afgan land.
it dosent affect me at all really and the usa would never listen to the likes of us down here anyway. we just dont factor. im not sure we're even your allies these days. who needs them anyway. the worst we have here is the chance of a whale invasion.

 

Don't fool yourself my friend. No Country is safe from the possibility of a world war :sad: If we can not defeat these thugs, that may well be where we end up.

What country do you live in anyway?

 

carlstar, Germany exists today because the United States is slow to anger, but quick to forgive. The same goes for Japan.
We also know that not every citizen of a country thinks the same way. The bin Laden plan calls for everyone to think the same way. Do you agree with that?
And do you really think that the people in the Trade Center and in the planes deserved to die so that bin Laden could follow his dream? You do realize, I hope, that people of many nationalities died in the attacks, so if you think it doesn't affect you, and the world, you're wrong. You've said a couple times that terrorists are to be respected because they're doing what they believe is right. You even expressed this sentiment about Hitler. So if I believe it's right to kill innocent people, you'll respect me, too?
I simply can't understand people who feel like you. You make me very sad. :sad:

 

Actually, in his own way, Hitler was brilliant. He was a decent commander, one of the best public speakers the world has known and a masterful politician. He just had some really screwed up ideas. If he hadn't made the mistake of invading Russia when he did, or if he'd been more moderate then the world would be very different. From a historian's point of view, you can't help but admire Hitler and what he did with Germany.

 

From a tactician's point of view, maybe, or, more accurately, from a politician's point of view, perhaps Hitler could be admired.
But he was an evil son-of-a-bitch, and he killed a lot of people. If there's justice in the after-life, Hitler is in Hell getting ass-fucked by a Jewish black guy with a spiked dick. Sammy Davis Jr., maybe. But Hitler might actually dig that.

You know why Hitler's men never got drunk with him? Because Hitler was a mean drunk.

 

as jarinor said about hitler, that is what i have too admire. human history is all about death so whats another. america wasnt really slow to anger it was alot about building up overwhelming forces. they knew a cold war would start afterwards and they would have been forcedd back with an early and ill planned invasion. it was europes problem anyway, wasnt it. germany could have would have won if hitler gave control of the war to his generals. yes i said would. as you said eros. attacked in winter without snow gear. hitlers doing. that first strike could have worked. but this is all conjecture isnt it.

i said bins boys too. not the afgans.
if an invasion thing here happened here in new zealand. well for one thing an enemy, oh indenisia would love to and china secound. they would go through australia first and if that fell well we give up. even though we stupidly throw ourselfs into every foriegn conflick we have one of the weaker militaries around. we dont even have a air force now. of course we have only had the maori and european wars here and i must say the moari kicked the gun firing fools ass. moari had spear and club and tactics. they invented trench war fare you know. hmmmm, so maybe we would fight on. in forest and hills. learn from the past. hit and run and such. yeah i would do that.

a world war if you lose against bins boys. what scare mongering politician said that to you. if there is a world war you need about half the world invovled and both sides to be equal. hands up who wants to fight the usa. hmmm. anyone. oh look a few despots here and there, oh and look some dictators that the usa already have over a barrel. thats not a world war. that a massacre waiting to happen.

i for one thing i shall be watching tv and flicking over during adds to see how the fighting is going. oh no i might just read a book instead.

 

OK.. Before I start let me say:

Feldon Kane AMEN

It is so rare when one actually encounters a sane person homage should be paid.

As for the other remarks I honestly wonder how many of you have actually served your country during times of war?

I have.

I am a veteran and let me say this:

From ANY point of view, historical, HUMANITARIAN, political or other wise Hitler was a butcher and a LIAR and a damn poor tactician that took advantage of a desperate people. He not only destroyed other country's with his hate, pride and ignorance he totaled his own in the process.

He could have sued for peace but NO, GOD NO. Nothing less then total annihilation of he own people would due. He sent 15-year-old children to their deaths when there were no men left to fight. Germany was a HELLHOLE when he was through with it. NO leader since Cleopatra has ever showed such an utter disregard for the lives of the very people they were born too.

For you to say what if and worship is no less then a sad, sad, sad statement on how the truth can be distorted into a reason and tool for hate.

And until you have actually experienced someone shooting at you and you shooting back for no other reason then to TRY and stop some other persons insanity. Until you have experienced that utter terror you will never understand the true value of the life you have and the NEEDLESS deaths of so many MILLIONS of others that died just so you could callously joke and suppose about it. When you should be on your knees thanking your God that it never came to be. and to THINK for one second Hitler would have stopped with Russia is no less then insane. Hitler declared war on U.S. after we declared on Japan in defence of ourselves, don't forget that.

You should look in the eyes of any Woman born in Germany in the years 1938 to 1945 and say the things you have written here. They were the children then and are likely the same generation of your mothers or grand mothers, but unlike you they didn't have warmth and comfort as children. They had fear terror. The same EXACT kind of fear and terror that Bin Lauden serves his people with.

I am done with this justification of my views....

Again.

Feldon Kane AMEN


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eros Rex on 2001-12-18 20:45 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eros Rex on 2001-12-18 20:53 ]</font>

 

my god eros you put things into peoples mouths and that isnt meant to be some gay joke.
i for one dont worship or like bin or hitler.
hitler was a smart man. bin is fighting for HIS cause and not mine.
when two opposed thoughts come together conflict of some sought arrise. im not saying one is better than the other. i for one no nothing about alliah and i would assume most here are in the same boat there. bin is not fighting for the taliban but well he says alliah and against the capillist christians. like i said earlier, religions gonna be the death of us all.

so youve fought in a war. you know you can turn down that sought of thing. just go to jail or dont jion the army. i no i will be a traitor if forced to fight. i will not be told who to kill. different ages and different times though make for differrent people

so let me bring the cold war into this. america in my eyes was a scare mongering terrorist. so was russia england... you get the picture. going over seas to stop the dommino effect. thats just fucked. is a political system worth dieing and killing for. apparently so. so whats the difference.

cold war vs todays.

two in the same. youve done it so why cant they. or should they have learnt. yeah thats gonna happen. people have sort memories.

 

Okay Eros, settle down there. I never said Hitler was justified, I just said that he was very very good at what he did. For that matter, I never said that I admired him. I just said that historically or politically he could be admired.

Feldon, from what I remember in school, Hitler didn't drink. Or if he did, he only drank beer. Don't know about him being a mean drunk though...

Hitler only used the kids to defend Germany when defeat was becoming more and more likely. Even then the Russians took horrific losses.

I think you're getting a little too emotional over this Eros. How I am being callous and joking about this is beyond me. I'm taking this discussion quite seriously. I'm pointing out facts and opinions, not making jokes or anything like that.

 

carlstar, I think you must be very young, so I'll take it easy on you.
I think you must be young because you say "human history is all about death, so what's another".
You obviously haven't experienced the death of someone close to you, or maybe there's no one close to you. Maybe you've never felt love.
Again, you make me very sad, and I pity you.

As far as America building up weapons before entering WWII, you're wrong. America didn't want to be in that war. The United States was practicing isolationism at the time, and the armed forces were relatively weak. The public wanted nothing to do with European politics.
"It didn't affect us."
It took the attack on Pearl Harbor to make America angry enough to enter the war. And IMO America should have entered the war sooner, knowing what we did about what was happening in Europe. But America waited until we were attacked, and then we entered the war with a vengeance, and, with our allies, won it.

We were slow to anger. Too slow to save millions of lives. Now we are acting quickly.

Because the Allies won WWII, you don't have to keep a standing army. Because of political arrangements brought about by the Allied victory during the War, your country can instead devote its finances to improving the standard of living of your people.

Because if something really bad were to happen, Uncle Sam would step in. Seriously, why is it that China, with a billion people, doesn't invade your country right now?
Because they know that they wouldn't be facing just you.
On September 11, 2001, America lost more people than at Pearl Harbor.
And at Pearl Harbor, at least most of the dead were military. But bin Laden killed civilians. We will never stop hunting him down until he is dead. And then we will hunt down others who would seek to destroy America.
Pearl Harbor taught us that isolationism leads to disaster. That's why we "meddle" in the politics of other nations. Because we can and because we remember what our inaction cost us in the past. We don't want the things that have happened to us to happen to ANYONE.

You SHOULD read a book. Quit watching television. It rots your brain.

*steps off the soapbox*

Jarinor, the Hitler drinking thing is a joke!
I guess it's one of those jokes you have to tell in person.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Feldon Kane on 2001-12-18 21:45 ]</font>

 

feldone that tv thing was also a joke that you had to know about. i dont have a tv. it rots the brain and only has crap on it.

24. yes i know people who have died, killed themselfs and the such too. death is the only constant in life. dwell on it and it piosons you from the inside. exceptting it is the only way to go or youre just kidding yourself.
crap i sound like im a goth.

if we were invaded and a stable government could take over the usa would not mind so much. hell if australia invaded us the usa would be happy and im not saying aussie should but i wouldnt fight it, aslong as you treat us better than your aboriginals. the usa lets the australians deal with this part of the world today.

the usa in the ww2. yes thats true. like i said if they jioned in they would have been beaten back at that time. but they still were there in the beginning with intelligents. i was just adding onto what you said ealier. i know of the isolation policy. it was starting to come about again. the australian thing for example.

who said bad nazis for declaring war on the usa. they had too. allies and all. japan would have broken ties with the nazis if they didnt. thats alliances for you.

one more thing. if the nazis went onto attack the usa it would be harder than going to the moon. the ocean. the supplie lines. the pointless of it all. russia had what they wanted. you would need to double the population over night. hitler would be off touching bottoms and doing lines of speed of them by then anyways.


sammys great.

 

Actually, I'm a television producer. And it's all crap.
Are you in New Zealand?
Honestly, I don't know as much as I should about your area of the world, or the conditions there. I don't know how the US would react if Australia invaded you.
America certainly wouldn't be happy, because a hostile invasion is a pain in the ass. But I doubt if we'd do anything. We might send in a few peace-keepers, and round up all the sheep.
That's what the Aussies really want anyway. :grin: