Let's relax and calmly discuss homophobic people...

Re:

It just looks like a one-sided arrangement.

 

But they don't have any less rights than what we do. Nothing is stopping them from marrying the opposite gender and having children. Just because they are attracted to their own gender shouldn't put them above anyone else.

 

The pressing issue is discrimination and whether they should be lower than anyone else.

Personally, I couldn't care less about marriage but I fucking despise bullies.

The most enviable couple I know have a child and a house together, but are unmarried. Instead they hold a private ceremony once a year to renew their contract. Those are the only two people involved, after all. So it is with homosexuals and I'm not fussed if they can get an official certificate of pair bonding or not, but they certainly deserve freedom to choose and freedom from persecution.

When Christians are routinely beaten, ridiculed and reviled in mainstream society, I will be standing up for them too.

 

I'd say it is almost the opposite these days. If you are white, straight and don't live on welfare then you are the worst person in the world and should feel terrible.

 

Re:

They actually do have less rights, if you consider the inability to marry your desired consenting partner as a missing right. Besides, why would allowing same sex marriages put them above other people, if the laws in place allowed anyone - and not just gay couples - to marry people of the same sex? It's not giving a small group of people more rights than the majority if absolutely everyone is allowed to do it.

Another way to describe it is if any one person is allowed to marry a consenting adult of their preference, then there's not putting one group of people above another.

As it stands, in places that allow civil unions for same sex couples, those unions often don't transfer from state to state, let alone other countries where that sort of thing isn't recognized (and of course, even if you live somewhere that allows you to get married, that doesn't mean your marriage carries from state to state or country to country).

Also, the rights allowed the couple don't often match those same rights offered to married couples. This means that if someone is in a homosexual relationship and in critical condition, unless that person's family allows it, their partner isn't allowed to visit in the hospital. It happens far more often than it should. If I follow the situation the way you're describing it, the "easiest" way to solve it is to marry the opposite sex in that person's family so they can visit their significant other when they're in the hospital, and that's if the person's family is a) ok with their kid being gay and b) alright with either the mother/father or sister/brother going into a sham marriage for a specific, and hopefully unlikely, event.

This is obviously a strange hypothetical situation, but it adheres more to the reality of homosexual relationships than "They have the same rights as everyone else, which is why they shouldn't be able to marry who they love."

 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34u_3Z9_LUw[/youtube]

 

It's like you can't even beat your slaves/women/children with a church approved rod without some bleeding heart leftard impugning your ancient right of lordship over lesser beings.

But seriously, centuries of privilege makes for a spoiled brat and complaining about it when the sheep suddenly realise that they outnumber the wolves makes you sound like a whiny bitch.

Suck it up for another three thousand years then maybe we can talk about sympathy.

I'm part of a Dutch English colonial remnant in Asia. Many Indonesians and aboriginals hate me for my ancestors. That is karma. Should I feel bad? Am I terrible? I don't know, but I accept the hate as the natural consequence of my people living fat off others for centuries. I'm waiting patiently for the pendulum to settle in the middle, not pushing it back and setting it swinging again.

TL;DR - man up, you pussies.

 

I'll consider Abo's hate justified when they aren't given everything on a silver platter. it does them more harm than good because there is no incentive for them to do anything but waste the money given to them on drugs, alcohol and incest.

 

Holy fuck, dude.

Such posts from a police officer.

Jesus wept.

Here's a taste of what they were handed on a silver platter with bells on, just a taste.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -memorials

Anyway, I think this explains why people keep saying you're the worst person ever and should feel terrible.

I cannot engage such entrenched bigotry but I will say this: everything you have said is on the record.

 

Well I guess from the sounds of things if reincarnation exists and I get reincarnated I hope I come back as a young gay female half black half asian benefit cheat who's drugged up to the eyeballs and has 17 kids - life would be sweeeet!

Also making veiled threats to be detrimental to someone's career isn't cool ytzk. Whether Zanza's opinion is right or wrong I'd imagine being a police officer and seeing crimes perpetrated by a certain demographic of people is bound to shift your opinion of that same demographic.

Honestly I'm just surprised they charge money for incest in Australia, if anything you'd have thought that would be free.

 

Not a veiled threat, just a friendly reminder.

The internet remembers.

That you should pick out that as the least cool post in this thread is abhorrent.

 

Australian media focuses on selling stories, not telling the truth. How I feel about people having dealt with them everyday does not affect how I treat them when I'm working.

I'll give you an example of one day on the job.

000 call that bloke is beating on his missus. I rush out there and break it up. I see a bloke, pale skin, red hair built like a brick shit house. He identifies as Aboriginal, so already anything I have to do with him has to be treated like he is under the age of 18. His missus is also Aboriginal and has a crim history of theft, which I myself have let her off with cautions.

Now when it comes to Family Violence we are pro arrest. The idea is arrest the offender and get them out of the house. If I was to arrest either of them I would have to inform external agencies to ensure they are not being taken advantage of, simply because they either are or at least identify as being Aboriginal.

I go to remove the male from the house except the female doesn't want him to go, doesn't want to make a statement. I leave only to have to return 45 minutes later from another 000 call. Same thing happens, don't do anything because neither one wants to make a statement.

Two hours later we get another call. I return, for the safety of the children there I arrest the bloke who has been beating his partner. Drag him out with him swinging. The woman is slapping my partner and hurling abuse at us but we are doing this for her safety.

Tell me again how your media tells the public about what really happens?

Despite all this, I'll get called to their house again in a couple of days because someone has broken in and stolen things. The offender will be a drug dealer looking to get his payment back. I'll still treat them with dignity and not bring to light my past dealings with them. I'll still do the proper procedures and work hard to find and catch the person who stole from them.

Know what they will say when I do catch that guy and he goes to jail? I'll get called a fucking pig that can get fucked and die.

You tell me who's hate should be justified. This couple weren't even affected by the stolen generation. They don't work, they don't want to work, they don't need to work. They have all this spare time and have been given a nice house, which they trash, a good amount of money to live off and still decide to steal things they don't need from shops.

Also despite any threats you make, comments you make about myself or my career, I'll still be out there, making sure you have just as much right to say those things as the next.

 

Re:

Yes threatening behaviour isn't cool, and though things have already been heated in this thread no one else stooped to that level - which I honestly find surprising from you with your peace and love mantra.

As Zanza alluded to, I also think it's easy to sit back and preach peace and love and sticking it to the man and always maintain the moral high ground without having any practical experience of what you're talking about. Society will never judge the philosophical super liberals who can point to any popular injustice and also chime in with "Hey, that's wrong man", but it can be too quick to judge those who deal with this stuff on a daily basis - which extends way beyond the current example to things like animal testing to develop new medicines, a government trying to marry stringent environmental concerns with the need to allow businesses to do what they do and sustain economic growth, etc. What many people don't realise is fighting the power is actually an easier stance to take than trying to practically deal with things.

 

Oh, gee, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings with all my threats.

Brazenly reminding you that 'submit' means 'publish and distribute globally'. Such threats.

There were no threats, and to say there were is an absurd assertion.

 

Re: I'm growing to hate homophobic people...

Not to nitpick, but I thought at least incest was free. EDIT: and I just noticed Jojo already made the joke.

That's pretty impressive. Not many people can actively separate their personal lives from their jobs.

Sounds shitty. Of course, I have thoughts;

Now, as little as I know about being a police officer, I can tell you see some pretty troubling stuff on a regular basis and I think it's safe to assume you're in danger more than the average person.

Obviously the couple you mention has done their share of stupid shit, and I'll not try defending them. I'll say that whether a crime is reported and whether it happens are two different things, and in spite of the high degree of reports regarding the aboriginals committing crimes and generally acting entitled, that doesn't directly imply other populations aren't just as criminal or entitled, or both.

I can't speak for Australia, but we've got some interesting statistics over here when it comes to crime, poverty and welfare, too. What I can say about it is there are more poor whites than any other demographic, if I just use the size of the populations in question; and white people are slightly more likely to commit crime here than other groups in general, if I'm using percentages. Looking at prison populations, though, you wouldn't be able to tell that.

Speaking of that, it looks like prisons in Australia work pretty much like ours do, which would mean they're focused more on punishing inmates than actually rehabilitating them. And since your prisons are only teaching people how to be criminals, are you surprised at the amount of people who continue committing crimes? I apparently don't know the question to ask in Google, so I don't know how the job situation is for convicted felons in your part of the world. But over here it's nearly impossible to get work when you're a felon, or someone convicted of misdemeanor drug charges. So people who want to actively contribute can't, and go into a life of crime because it's the only work they can find. As a result, over 70% of our prison population goes right back in after they're released. Sure, that's not something awful like any number higher than that, but nurture goes pretty far in determining who's going to be a criminal.

I don't know if ytzk edited his post before you responded, because he's quick like that, but his post doesn't read like a threat. At all. As a result, it looks like you accused him of making a veiled threat because he mentioned Google keeps copies of all text in caches of websites, hence 'on the record.' And, while I'd hope you didn't equate "not being racist" with "the easy thing to do," that's exactly what it looks like, given the context.

 

Re: I'm growing to hate homophobic people...

Talking of ninja edits:

Personally, I think Zanza's original statement was pretty sweeping - I'm sure there's plenty of Aboriginal people who contribute perfectly well to Australian society. I also don't agree with racist sentiments - however I do realise that people who have to deal with a certain demographics of people, which can often mean a minority, which have a high proportion of individuals who commit criminal acts can often grow to dislike dealing with that same demographic. Do I think it's right, well no, but can I say if I was put in that situation I wouldn't feel the same - no I can't, and in fact I would probably dislike that same subsection of people who made my life difficult whether that subsection be defined by race/religion/frankly whatever lines. I think it's an unenviable job and one that I would never pick but I think in some instances developing those attitudes are par for the course and if Zanza is consummately professional as he says he is then I see no problem with personally held grievances that he does not let affect his work.

In fact I don't personally agree Japes' views on gay people; however if those views are held due to religious beliefs, he does not stigmatise gay people and instead finds himself suffering prejudice for holding those religious beliefs then its very hard to point to what is correct here - I'd lean towards Japes for not acting cruelly towards others.

Personally I've never held any racist sentiments in any shape or form, I was always taught to universally try and accept people and have been friends with people of various races and people who hold racist sentiments (who I always questioned about their prejudice, but I appreciate one wrong belief by my standards does not make a horrible person). I believe people can be dicks regardless of race or creed, and those things never really correlate - it's much more about upbringing and environment.

And yes I did feel like the context of ytzk's original message felt threatening, "everything you have said is on the record" does read differently to something like "the internet has logged everything you've said". We've discussed this privately, and honestly I think it's open to subjective interpretation - however from what ytzk told me he did not intend for it to sound threatening. When threads get heated, even slightly loosely worded phrases can make things escalate so I'm sorry to ytzk if he felt like I had misunderstood him which I did do.

 

Re: I'm growing to hate homophobic people...

I do happen to agree with you, but I'd hope you understand your statement needed a bit of clarification, given the circumstances.

You're also right about how it's so easy to be an armchair-add profession here, but there are still people working in specific professions who are also idealists - and I don't think you've forgotten about those people. Even so, it seemed you were equating any idealists with online "activists," or really anyone who's got an opinion and a soap box.

 

You're all about the mighty morphing edits today, I believe the original post was something along the lines of the contributions most idealists make, which is inherently and usually none (hence idealist and not pragmatist). Most of my post was in reference to that, I appreciate that some people genuinely try to engender change but mostly it's a waste of time - unless you get a flashpoint that grabs people's attention no one is going to care about the few people who try and change general opinion. Leading off from the first part of the pre-edit...

That's exactly like what I said! Disliking people who are unpleasant to you is perfectly normal, if you happen to find a certain minority consistently being unpleasant to you (e.g. some mean looking kids you see at a bus stop you have to walk by, members of a race or a religion that you feel is representative of an entire race or religion but likely isn't, etc.) you'll probably dislike them. I don't understand how this logical thought process makes me a racist sympathiser, it's just human nature. If a guy at work was continuously pissing in your face even the most moderate person would eventually go "Hey, would you mind not pissing in my face?"

And to me personally, very few idealists seem to engage in real world problems. My dad is personally a hippy liberal and seems to thinks pesticides are the root of all evil (yes, he's insufferably one of those organic foodies), yet if a pesticide has been through the appropriate testing and has been found to not be a danger to broad swaths of wildlife yet massively benefits third world countries by improving food supply he'd still be pissy about it. At the same time what would his dramatic solution be to this problem: absolutely nothing. Don't worry, me and my dad don't have huge issues over this, but it's analogous to a lot of idealists in a lot of situations:

"We should stop X!".
"Yeah but by stopping X we exacerbate Y, what do you propose to do about that?"
"I don't know, but X is like really bad and needs to stop, and though I don't have any long term solutions to what stopping X will cause I'll still rally for it because everyone knows X is bad. And if X does get banned, you'll still be there to pick up all the pieces, right?"