Items Spells Skills Stats Usefullness and Maximization

You're still telling those few players with characters that will go higher up on the TA scale to waste a character point. As for it being hard to find the right plants, that's what a wiki with pictures of said plants is for.

Useful for the entire game is better than useful for the first half of the game.

Not to mention the fatigue restorer that can be made as the second schematic in herbology that only requires 8 intelligence - and how many backgrounds start out with at least that score? Tobacco and coca leaves. All ingredients, if not found in the wild, are very cheap in stores. Considering how easy it is to find money in the game, it's a sound investment that keeps you alive, and it's cheaper than potions.

My first characters all went towards tech. I may have been unfamiliar with crafting, but to be unfamiliar with a system as simple as two ingredients and a button means you simply haven't tried it yet. You're very nearly insulting the new players by saying how hard something is for people you've never met. This might just be me, but I tend to wave my cursor over everything in this game just to see what I can interact with. That's how I found the plants in the first place, and I wiped the crash site clean before I even decided to spend that CP. Considering the output of the healing salve schematic with given ingredients, I'd say herbology is safer than magick.

Easy isn't always best, and the way your FAQ is written, you want to give these new gamers a good start. It's better to give them a primer course in schemata than to just dust it under the rug because of how easy magick is.

Now, while I know I'm not every gamer, you too must realize the same thing. Not every gamer plays like you, and if the player is that concerned with difficulty? Combat has a difficulty setting in this game changeable at will, both in obvious difficulty and through turn-based/real time combat.

Now I might ask, what's easier for you?

 

Really you think people are retarded enough not to figure out how to use herbology right off the bat? I never had any issue, it really only takes a very mild interest in your game world and what all the icons do on your screen to figure it out. Also finding herbs, though slightly more difficult, isn't really that challenging; if you stop and start frequently on a forested of the world map you'll gather what you need in five minutes tops. Either that or buy what you need from a healer (the herbs for salves cost 3 a piece) as a side gig whilst gathering tech items from inventors that you wish to stockpile (e.g. for therapeutics), looking for a weapon at a smith or trying to make money (spamming eye gear) - it really isn't that hard.

 

Do you guys get a rise from trying to defame me?

A bunch of care-free schoolchildren.

 

Oh look! Drog writes in Haiku!

But seriously, I can tell when there's lambasting to be found when I find that Drog has posted.


Ease up on Leonidus, Gentlemen. He's trying to do something good.

That said, Leonidus, since I will defend you against their anger, I expect you to calmly and rationally read and review their input. If this turns into a flame war and I determine (using metrics purely of my own divising [I flip a coin]) that you started the flame war? I'll use my fun little 'purge' button.

 

How did I miss this!

 

Darkfool, much appreciated. If you read my responses you will see that I tend to remain logical regardless of the circumstances.

Dark elf, the troikapedia looks like fertile ground. This will probably be the final resting place of much of my data, to help the newer players.

I would request that this thread be left standing though, as the FAQ in the first post can help anyone doing a search for stat answers and beginner help on the forum. As I have said before, all mistakes will be corrected.

Gross and Jojo, I did say minor healing is easier than herbology. I also said that seems rather undebatable - using the heal spell is much simpler, quicker, etc. I also already said you were right in that herbology might be arguably better, and said for that reason I will gladly put it in the FAQ. There is a slavic saying that goes something like "It is insane for a man to bark at a quiet dog." I have told you both that you are correct, so perhaps stop fighting after victory my friends. Your contribution does not go unappreciated.

On that note if there is any other useful info players would like beginners to know, please feel free to post it.[/i]

 

You can't wait at all locations. You can craft in all locations. If you run out of fatigue in certain areas, you're without healing for as long as you stay there unless you have potions, and I'd hope you've got enough to stay (though the cost of potions is far higher than kadura stems and ginka roots). Is it really easier to keep running in and out of the BMC every time you need fatigue? What about every other dungeon-map? Your immediate fight might be over, but there's no sleeping in those areas. It costs more in the long run to use magick like this.

I offered something doable at any time. Think about how often you can craft as opposed to how often you can sleep to regain fatigue. I can think of one good place to sleep for free (The Wilderness), but very few things happen that are important there other than random encounters. Tarant? Find an inn. Caladon? Inn. Nearly any other place you could have a fight, you can't sleep just anywhere - you have to pay for it or you have to leave. That's a hassle, and it invariably costs more than ingredients for a healing salve, either by time spent moving or money spent sleeping. Plus, dwarven characters are covered by your "All characters" easier recommendation. There's a problem with that, though - all spells cost twice as much for a dwarf to cast, simply because he's a dwarf. That 10x now is 5x, and you've healed half as much. Also, you have to sleep even more often.

Also, within the time you run out of fatigue, you could die. Your fight might not be over. It's easier to stay alive with herbology than hope your fatigue lasts through a fight because you've only got minor healing. If it gets really bad and you've got herbology, the hassle you're describing is;

Finding ingredients, having them in your inventory, and making healing salves. With one ginka and one kadura, you get two salves. 9 of each ingredient? Well, that's 18, which is plenty to get you through the BMC with some left over, all without sleeping.

This, as opposed to using all your fatigue, needing to run out of the mine, then sleep and run all the way back in to where you left off. Sure, there's no enemies, but even with waypoints the whole thing takes longer than my method.

All I'm trying to do is convince you to rethink your method. Is what you say objectively better? Not from where I stand. Lower cost, sustainability, raw materials literally all around you in the wilderness, and high return on investment into the skill. It's better and easy at the same time, especially since you want players not to quit out of frustration. The single method you've described as easy would become so very frustrating that I'd quit within the first half of the game and try to find a better way.

 

Um, simply advancing time by one hour fully restores your fatigue.

 

That seems to have a similar real-time investment to making healing salves.

 

You can't always advance time if you're in a dungeon though. I've had times playing a weak mage where I've had to wait 15 minutes or so for his fatigue to recover over real time in the middle of such a dungeon.

 

I don't think I've ever actually slept at an inn Grossen. You just wait 1 hour and gain 50 FT to heal with.

Herbology/potions are definitely the way to go in dungeons. That's the one place you can't loiter.

I also like to always carry a scroll of exiting, and using that you can heal quickly and run right back in. Scroll of exiting doesn't seem to fail based on TA.

I should note that casting minor healing on yourself never fails due to TA.

Really though Grossen, it kind of seems like you're arguing just for the sake of not admitting the one part you were wrong on. That or you still haven't picked up on my point that my original claim was minor healing is "easier" not "better" and that's because it's just plain easier, amigo. Healing with the spell takes 5 seconds man, there's just nothing anyone can say that will make herbology easier than that. Better in some cases, like you have pointed out and I have agreed, but not easier.

Regardless, it's been kind of ridiculous arguing about it, as I also pointed out before, so maybe once I agreed to put it into the FAQ you could've just stopped arguing?

I'm sure there's something important in my FAQ that is missing and not on my to-do list so I'd much rather talk with someone about an addition beyond herbology vs minor healing. Maybe you have something else to add, Grossen.

Recap:
-------
Minor Healing

Raises MA
Infinite supply anywhere but dungeons.
Buying potions for dungeons costs money
Super fast and easy
Lowers FT in combat
Fails on tech allies in combat

Herbology

Raises TA
Collect ingredients, which aren't hard to find
Takes inventory space
Doesn't lower FT in combat
Works on all allies all the time

 

Mages dabbling in herbology?
No respect for consistency.

Wizards taking hour-long naps between minute-long sessions of spellcasting?
No respect for sense.

Never slept at an inn?
No respect for roleplay.

Filthy, filthy attitudes in this thread. For shame.

 

I did admit where I was wrong before in this thread, a few times; as I said before, you're correct in that certain background/race combos can increase their stats above the maximum "allowed" by their background. It is also possible to restore your fatigue by advancing time by an hour where you can't sleep, which I did agree to. It's all on the previous page.

I also know what word you used, but I was arguing against "easy," particularly on the grounds of sleep - as soon as Drog mentioned advancing time for an hour, now that's what you're saying. You still need extra stuff to allow you to advance time within the game if you're crawling through a dungeon. All of these extra things you're mentioning now (that are indeed in your FAQ), seem to complicate using minor healing all the time (scrolls of exiting, potions), making it sound less easy than you say it is. Any way it's sliced, preparations need to be made for entering dungeons - it's not as simple as your character learning a spell or a schematic, you as a player must learn how to use them effectively. It's interesting that you go out of your way to say one method is easy, as well as saying how something else is hard, while neglecting in your FAQ how to prepare for healing while in a dungeon - which will make or break any character created.

Minor healing doesn't fail if you cast it on yourself, but it isn't as effective on higher tech aligned characters, while salves are always the same effectiveness. And, like I've mentioned already, the dwarven double-fatigue penalty is very real and will make it not so easy to cast magick, ever. This alone would make your "all characters have a much easier start" false. Since you don't mention dwarves in your FAQ more than is needed for Harrow and machined gauntlets, it might be worth adding into it that there's a fatigue penalty for using magick while a dwarf.

 

Updated my faq but I can't paste it to the first post in edit, getting a 500 error each time. Probably too long now for one post.

The faq is found here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/914155-arcanum-of-steamworks-and-magick-obscura/faqs/63974

 

Did some thinking on maximizing the most free CP (stat bonuses only, not worried about skills).

Dwarf gets the mysterious dwarven gauntlets, but misses out on caladon crusading chain. Each give +4 stats, but the gloves of dex also give +2 stats, so it's better to have crusading chain and gloves of dex.

Half Elf gets +1 DEX and +1 BEA but only -1 CON, and can wear caladon crusading chain.

Charlatan's Protege background gives +6 CHA but penalizes only -2 CON and -2 STR and some combat skills.

Frankenstein Monster background gives +4 STR and +4 CON but penalizes only -6 DEX.

Only Child background gives +6 WILL and penalizes only -4 CHA.

Technophobia is +1 STR +1 CON.

All the best +stat items are magic or neutral except charged ring.

Most +1 stat magic items only give the bonus at >50% magic power available.

Helm of Yzar's cost reduces HP, FT and DR but gives PER+4. Goggled helmet has no curse and is PER+3.




Half Elf + Background
---------------------
+3 total



Highest Overall Stat Gain From Items (without Dark Toll Boots)
----------------------------
STR +2
DEX +3
CON +4
BEA +6
INT
WILL
PER +4
CHA +4

Total = 23

Using helm of yzar's cost, caladon crusading chain, gloves of dex, ring of influence, ring of virility, jewel of hebe, axe of strength.

Speed can be increased by 5 using the enchanted warboots.





Vivifier + Final Blessing + Quest Blessings
---------------------

5 Dex
2 Cha
2 Bea
1 Con
1 Str
1 Int
1 Will
1 Per

Total = 14


Grand Total
Half Elf + Background + Items + Blessings + Vivifier
-------------------------------------------------
STR +3
DEX +9
CON +4
BEA +9
INT +1
WILL +1
PER +5
CHA +6

+2 total from background

Grand total = 40





Items With Good Stat Bonuses
--------------
Helm of Yzar's Cost - PER +4 bow bonus also

Goggled Helmet - PER+3

Caladon Crusading Chain - STR + 1 DEX +1 CON +1 BEA +1

Mysterious Dwarven Gauntlets - STR +1 CON +1 DEX +2 (dwarf only)

Gloves of Dexterity - DEX +2

Axe of Strength - STR +1 CON +1

Boots of the Dark Toll - DEX +2 (too cursed to use though)

Enchanted War Boots - Speed +5

Ring of Influence - BEA +3 CHA +3 Persuasion and Haggle +3 also

Ring of Virility - CON +2

Charged Ring - DEX +2

Amulet of N'Tala - STR +1 CON +1

Jewel of Hebe - BEA +2 CHA +1

Finger of Mannox - WILL +1

Beauty amulets (various) - BEA +2

 

For a really thorough look at items that give bonuses I would suggest this thread. Also don't forget the usefulness of using therapeutics to up stats, after using a stat boosting item (such as the energizer and the like) the boost has always remained on my character 'til I've waited, rested or travelled using the world map - making therapeutics a very valid means of saving on character points.

 

To the OP:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/914155-arcan ... faqs/13910

Problem solved?