I would like your guys's opinon

everyones an idiot till they have left schooling for about 2 years and get a real education.

 

Sorry to bypass all the later comments, but I was asleep while they were made. I did read them though, and agree with a lot of them.

Yeayea, I'd say wisdom can come with experience and experience can come with age. It's not guaranteed, since it requires an ability to learn, which some people don't have in abundance, but it is certain that people generally become wiser, or at least more knowledgeable, with age. Naturally, people know this, and therefore have a tendancy to attribute more credibility to older people. Equally naturally, younger people find this fact unpalatable (although I believe the most intelligent and wise younger people accept the fact and strive hard to learn).

It's funny, because it's easy to see if you look at the difference between a 1 yr old and a 15 yr old. Clearly, the 15 yr old has more knowledge and wisdom than the 1 yr old. For instance, the 1 yr old may not have learned the lack of wisdom inherent in approaching a fire too closely. Noone disputes this.

It's only when the wisdom becomes less apparent that people dispute it. If you take a 15 yr old and a 30 yr old, the 15 yr old make the claim that the 30 yr old is not more wise, but this is unlikely. Surely, the extra 15 yrs will have taught even the slowest learner something? For example, I notice that some people have learned the wisdom of not obsessing aout members of the opposite sex, whereas fewer 15 yr olds have.

I'd like to point out, that I don't believe people become more intelligent or honest over time.

I say this, because both factors should affect credibility in the situation your described with her friend and her dad.

Einstein was once a baby, and probably as intelligent at 1 yr old as at the age he wrote the theory of relativity. Of course, as a baby he did not have the knowledge or experience to do much with his genius.

Stalin (a very devious bastard, as I understand it), did not appear to become more honest as he aged.

Regarding Rhia and her dad, I hope you understand that evidence is the crucial thing here. Condemning people without evidence is dangerous on many levels. Therefore, I am unable to give an opinion either way on the guilt or innocence of either person involved. This has nothing to do with the fact I have been told the story by a teenager. I'd apply the same principle regardless of the age of the source. In fact, it bothers me that more people do not do the same, since I'm pretty sure many people would attribute guilt to me if a young girl accused me of rape, regardless of my innocence in the same way I'm sure some people would try to ignore the evidence if I was raped by a "respectable person" and wanted to prove it.

If you want people to listen to your opinion, there are strategies you can employ to make it more likely. These include:

• Consider your opinion before giving it, so that you have fewer reputation-damaging instances of blurting out something that turns out to be empty of value.
• Offer an opinion only when it adds something or achieves a purpose. Offering an opinion to prove you have a good one (which is something I am VERY guilty of, I'm afraid) becomes noticable over time and will cause people to pay less attention to what you say.
• Investigate the subject. This has several benefits:
  • It allows you to spot holes in your own opinion before you vocalise it.
  • It may provide you with convincing evidence.
  • It increases your confidence so that you are less likely to speak defensively, which is the doom of credibility.
• Listen to others when they are countering your opinion. Only by doing this will you be able to work out how to persuade them over to yourside. If you do not give their words enough thought, you cannot demonstrate understanding, and they'll just keep restating their position, without listening to you.

Sorry if this all seems patronising/boring. It's certainly not because you're a teenager. I'm patronising to everyone :shootme:

 

[Quote From Sherrif Fatman]
It's only when the wisdom becomes less apparent that people dispute it. If you take a 15 yr old and a 30 yr old, the 15 yr old make the claim that the 30 yr old is not more wise, but this is unlikely. Surely, the extra 15 yrs will have taught even the slowest learner something? For example, I notice that some people have learned the wisdom of not obsessing aout members of the opposite sex, whereas fewer 15 yr olds have.
[Quote From Sherrif Fatman]


That isnt because teenagers are just overly horny (well, some are) we have hormones that are hyperactive untill generally around 20. Now EVERYONE here was once or still is a teenager, dont you remember those glorious days when you looked a girl or guy whos clothes didnt quite fit? And there are adults who obsess about members of the opposite sex. Nothing ticks me off more than when an "adult" says that anyone under 18 doesnt know what true love is. That couldnt be farther from the truth. I fell in love with the most beautifull girl on earth and the hundreds of miles of ocean between us does not hinder our loving eachother.

Annother good example. A friend of mine, lets just call him Mr X fell in love with a girl, Ms Y. They were in love to a degree that I dont think anyone understands. It was truly amazing. They had sex one night, not because they were horny (Well that couldve played a small part) but because they loved eachother. Making love and having sex are 2 VERY different things. I cannot speak from expierence but I can speak from what I hear and see.

_________________
"Command What Is Yours, Conqure What Is Not"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: YeaYea2001 on 2002-02-08 23:48 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: YeaYea2001 on 2002-02-08 23:51 ]</font>

 

I hope you don't think I was suggesting that teenagers were incapable of love. I wasn't. All age groups are capable of love, from infants to pensioners.

I was merely pointing out that the available evidence would suggest part of bein a teenager is learning about romance. Learning involves making mistakes. I think it's a little hard on people to expect them to be born understanding the intricacies of romance. Most people probably go to there graves not understanding it all, but they may have advanced their knowledge through experience during their lives.

I'd like to ask: are you refuting my claim that wisdom can be gained over time from experience and that therefore more time gives more opportunities for becoming wise?

 

No...not really. Wisdom is like lightning in my opion, you ither get hit or you dont. Its rare that someone does. A teenager's brain can work 3 times faster than someone who is 30 years old. A kid does more learning in the first 4 years of his/her life than in 12 years of school. "Young and dumb" isnt always so. There are the teenage bone(r) heads out there, with thier "Im so stupid I must be cute" routine, and the frustrating thing is that THEY get the chicks!! Anyways, no one really knows if a teenager has wisdom because very few people accually take the time to listen. I read this in a magazine a few weeks ago, this guy wrote this absolutely kick ass fantasy sci-fi story when he was 14, he tried to publish it at 5 different companies, they all blew him off because they though that a teenager was just too dumb to write anything. Now the same companies that pushed him away are on thier hands and knees begging him to publish his book thru them, and hes 23 now. Im sure that that wasnt a one-off'er, goto http://www.elfwood.com 9/10ths of the artists on there are teenagers. I personally dont have enough artistic tallent to put my stuff on there. But there are some brilliant works up. My friend emailed the director of a small time art gallery in the area with the best pics on Elfwood, he just laughed them away. Its frustrating to do that much work and want to show it to other people but be laughed away. Again, I do not speak from expierience (well....I sorta do) but I would immagine its frustrating.

 

Well, as a wanna be writer I can certainly appreciate how horrible being turned down must be. I still think that it might be unwise to pin it on his being a teenager right off the bat. It's quite common for publishing houses to turn down budding authors, of all ages, only to kick themselves when the author later becomes hot property.

Would you find it surprising if I have trouble accepting your claim the teenage brains work 3 times as fast as 30 year old ones. It's hard enough dealing with the fact I'm so much closer to dying without thinking that my brain is now working at a third of its previous capacity

 

I concur that Jack being turned down may notve been entirely because he was a teenager. But he said that they did treat him like he was stupid.

And, sadly enough, the brain thing is true. As you get older your body slows down. Your brain along with it. Thats why you forget so many things when you reach 70+. While I doubt that we have any 70+ people on this msg board, you can ask someone you know. Ask them if its harder to think or if some mental activity they were once good at, the now find themselves struggling in.

 

Sorry. What was the question?

 

The question was, should teenagers have the same rights that adults have

 

Oh yeah.

NO.

 

Uhhh....any REASON why not??

 

I think the question should be:

WHY???

Teenagers haven't done shit to earn the rights and privileges of adults - it's like someone demanding respect before earning. Sorry buddy, but you've got to shoulder the responsibility before you get the privileges. When you join the army, you can't just walk up to your CO and demand respect - he'll just knock you out without a second thought. If you fight back, you'll be in some serious shit.

It's the same in real life. You have to work your way through the ranks before you get the good stuff.

As for you claim that old people don't know anything, my grandfather is one of the most intelligent people I know. The amount of knowledge he has stored in his brain is amazing, and I have great respect for him. I stamp, spit and shit on your claim that old people are stupid and don't know shit.

 

*Feldon grumbles under his breath*

YeaYea, read my earlier post in this thread!
If you want answers to your questions, read the thread.

 

I love the way you failed to understand Feldons joke right after claiming that your brain works three times better than mine. I got it :grin:

Sorry, but if you're going to make that sort of claim, I'm going to want some evidence a little more substantial than "ask an old person." Did you mean "ask an old neurology expert," by any chance?

This kind of claim seems to be exactly the sort of thing that would cause friction between the older and younger generations. I mean, you do realise that saying "the brain works three times less fast" is equivalent to saying "three times more stupid," right?

So in a post where you complain about people labelling your generation as stupid because of their age, you label my generation stupid because of our age. Were you tired of me feeling sympathetic to your plight?

Maybe you should consider:

• In defense of 70 yr olds, let me ask you - how many events from 60 yrs ago do you remember? Would you say it is more or less than our hyperthetical 70 yr old?
• Of course you don't have trouble remembering things. All of your memories are comparatively recent and you have relatively few to keep track of. It doesn't mean your brain is more efficient, it just means it is more empty.
• While being young does not imply stupidity, it does not prevent it.

 

I think the obvious reason is simple, teenagers do a disproportional amount of stupid things as opposed to adults.

You guys may think you're fairly bright now, but 5-10 years from now, you'll look back on your teenage years. Most likely, you'll be thinking, "What the hell was I thinking?" You'll probably be wondering why you didn't notice how smart your elders were as well.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saint_Proverbius on 2002-02-09 15:52 ]</font>

 

No.



nothing.



cage them

 

Jarinor I did not say that old people are stupid.

 

Yes, yes you fucking did! If that isn't calling them stupid - or at least implying it - then I don't what else you can call it.

I for one, am sick of the presumptuousness of the people who say "Just because we are young doesn't mean we don't have opinions/aren't stupid/don't know true love/ etc etc etc ad nauseum. The Sunday paper today featured an article which had a teenager, aged 16, talking about how she has become involved in the free-the-asylum-seekers campaign over here (which is very small by the way). She's leading a protest rally to give asylum seekers automatic freedom and money to resettle here!

Now, I'm not trying to turn this into another refugee thread, but the stupidity of this girl amazes me. All the teenagers out there proclaiming support for whatever cause they support with their bleeding hearts, ignorance and notions of utopia really PISS ME OFF!. I may still only be 18, but that classes me as an adult and a teenager, but I also like to think that I'm a realist. Teenagers don't know dick about the real world, so trying to bring about social changes and things like that bring an even worse stigma to the unfortunate time period of being 13-19.

As for the true love issue at a young age, who the fuck do you think you guys are to say you have experienced true love. You know what happens to your 'true love'? You grow up, get married, then 10 years and 3 kids later she's 100 kg heavier, drinking and eating your salary away, you're screwing your secretary because it's the only worthwhile thing in your life, she finds out and divorces you along with taking your money, kids and house. All you are left with is the chicken wire which formed the section of the wall which held the massive compost heap at the back of your garden together. Oh, and the ancient, and chronically ill family dog, which your wife always hated anyway, and the kids abused. There's your true love for you.

Have a good mid-life crisis.

_________________

"We will either find a way or make one" - Hannibal

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jarinor on 2002-02-10 11:36 ]</font>

 

Jar....take a valium, sit on your hands and listen. I did not mean to imply that I thought older people were stupid. If I did I am sorry. There ARE older people who ACT stupid and some that are bonified stupid, but that is not the same thing as saying that every adult is stuipd. And I am also not saying that all teenagers are Einstines, we have our share of idiots and pinheads.

I think I can speak for most teenagers when I say that we like to have fun rather than work. Fun brings a more imediate and fufulling reward. Granted it doesnt do much for the long run. But my mentality is "Your only on this earth for about a hundred years, once your dead, your dead for a long time so you might as well have fun while your here". And devoting my life, my sweat, my blood, my time, my individuality, my mind, my creativity to corprate america sounds like hell on earth times 10. Now like I said, I cant speak for all teenagers, but I can speak for myself.

 

And Jari...about the true love thing, Im not claiming that you can be expierienced in love at any age. Im saying that you can fall in love at any age, from 1 to 100. It makes me sick when people laugh at a teenager who found someone he truly loves and says that it will be over in 2 weeks. I met a girl, 18 months ago tomorrow, we love eachother so very much. I would dig a hole thru the center of the earth or drain the ocean or fly a paper airplane just to see her. We know we were ment for eachother. A group of teachers heard about this from one of my friends, I almost kicked the shit outta all of them when I found out they were having a pool to see how long it would last. We love eachother, nothing, no power in heaven, hell or on earth can come between us. There is nothing, NOTHING I wouldnt do for her.