Fun game, horrible documentation

I agree that the manual is definitely far too vague on many issues. That's why I've had to resort to coming to this forum and asking what seem to be fairly obvious questions.

As for the Baldur's Gate comparisons... it's a real-time RPG seen from a 3rd person perspective, so it's obviously in the same ball-park - so I suppose it's reasonably valid to say Arcanum may be trying to be like BG. I bet they'd love to emulate its success!

 

cmon if you've played bg or bg2 you would see the similarities, especially in the story line. and by the way, I would have to say the first final fantasy was the best rpg ever, followed by the 5th (i think it was the 5th, the one with job classes). yea but they fucked that series up when they released the romance novel disguised as a game called final fantasy 7. and does anyone remeber dragon warrior? also, a quick question in here, does anyone else get the major chunking when walking into places like taverns? if there are ever more than say 2 or 3 NPCs on the screen the shit starts chunking so bad. i guess 256mbs of memory just aint what it used to be. also, i remember reading somewhere that 64 mb video cards have some kind of problem with the game, what is the fix? and are the det 2 drivers REALLY that much better for this game or what?

 

WHAT the FUCK are you smoking? And where can I get some? I can only assume you haven't played Arcanum to the finish...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Calis on 2001-11-22 14:42 ]</font>

 

I'd say they were trying to make something like a 3rd person CRPG. Fallout shares as much in common with BG as Arcanum does in that respect, and I'd like to see how that could have been based on BG :smile:

 

I wouldn't think i would have to point out the similarities to BG. i mean many of the skills, spells, items, and plots all are very much like bg. ok so in BG the sanctuary spell makes undead run away, and in arcanum it just protects you from them. and in BG backstabbing is done so as 2x, 3x, etc damage, in arcanum, eh who knows, no where does it really explain how damages work. and good evil alignments and reactions are in no way similar to BG. cmon folks, face it, whether you want to or not, the games are highly similar.

 

You are stupid. Ever been to a doctor?

 

That's because they're both isometric fantasy RPGs. That's where the similarities end. The BG games use a class-based system based quite tightly in second edition AD&D. Arcanum uses a skillpoint-based system with tech skills added to them. So maybe a couple of spells are somewhat similar. All you're really proving is that both games draw their inspiration from the fantasy genre (shock and horror... they're both fantasy RPG's).

I take it you're not really "into" classical fantasy?

 

I would say you generalise too much pspahn420
There is a big source called AD&D and alot of the games take from it. Planescape, Eye of Beholder, Vampire the Masquarade, Menzoberenzan, (hope I spelled it right) (anyone remember the series of games made by that same company?)
They take the spells, and many abilities because they are STANDARD in any rpg. and the ismometrick view. And thats it. Would you say that any game that has a heal spell, you be similiar to BG? no. You are in the wrong.

 

in answer to bryant's earlier question with fatigue, throw a couple of points into herbolgy till you can make fatigue restorers, sure it's only 20 points you get but i have hasten going 24/7 and if you start getting low spend a round using them,although i only did that during big important fights, so no prob, also invest heavily into con, int and willpower, it helps a lot

 

*edit* just quickly, forget about necro black, force is much better for offence with jolt, bolt 'o' lighting and disintergrate and check out stasis and congeal time in temporal to slow down enemies.
sorry about delay in answer but been working 18 hr days lately

 

you can edit your previous post no need to make another one. As to your black necromancy, there is a spell there that has even my tech respect, it's the harm spell. Now you can get that early, and it helps tons.

 

Okay, other people have pretty much already my next points, but I really want to reinforce some of it.

BG and Arcanum are both Fantasy CRPG's. The options for view point are limited to 1st or 3rd person perspective, so is once you have more than two games, your gonna start getting some duplication, right? Same deal once you've chosen perspective - limited choices (isometric or point perspective) leading to inevitable duplication.

Almost all the things you point to as Arcanum ripping off BG can be seen in the same way. You want to describe a character? How to do it meaningfully? Stats and skills are the answers given by RPG's since the beginning (way before the home computer revolution). Okay, there have been some attempts at doing things radically differently, but none of them have flown too far.

I suppose what I'm trying to say, in my long winded and murky way is that Arcanum and BG sharing a genre and some ancestry/influences in no way makes one a rip off of the other.

The one area where I might be tempted to agree with you (if yuo'd been more specific) would be plots. In a world full of possibilities - or a fantasy world full of impossibilities - lack of originality can be disappointing.

Don't get too hung up on the similarities on the broad plots though. Having a central protagonist who is in some way divine but doesn't know it was not a plot invented by Baldurs Gate - they were several thousand years late on that one.

 

Well, shit, you know what? Diablo 2 is a real-time RPG (although the depth of role-playing involved is somewhat debatable), so I guess that it must also be in the same ballpark. Guess what? I bet the makers of BG2 would love to emulate the success of Diablo 2!!! Wow, how about that? If it's fantasy, and in 3rd person perspective, then it must be trying to be like Baldur's Gate! Never mind that other games have used that before Baldur's Gate (i.e Diablo 1). Therefore, according to your reasoning and argument, Baldur's Gate must be trying to be like Diablo 1, therefore because Arcanum is trying to be like Baldur's Gate, it must also be trying to be like Diablo 1...

WRONG!!! That is one of the most invalid lines of argument and reasoning everIf there is a better way to show that you are an idiot, I'd like to see it...wait on, I have another example...

Would you like to suggest another system for implementing backstabbing? Perhaps the victim should then have their toes cut off on a successful attack? Of course backstabbing is going to do extra damage. What the fuck else could it do?

Well, sanctuary, gee, let's think about that for a moment. Yes, I do believe it was also used in Diablo 2. You know what? It also was used to protect against the undead, as well as adding some extra damage. Gee whiz, that's another similarity for you between Baldur's Gate and Diablo 2. Really stacking up now aren't they?

As for the items being similar - what other fantasy items are available? Those are the types of weapons used in the middle ages, yet because both Baldur's Gate and Arcanum used them, and because Baldur's Gate came out first, Arcanum is trying to be like Baldur's Gate? Show me a fantasy game which doesn't use swords, bows, axes, leather armour etc etc etc. Come on, you made the argument, back it up with a suggestion of how Arcanum could be a RPG with a partial fantasy setting (I say partial because of the technological element involved) and not use the aforementioned items. Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 both used those items as well. Yet another example of Diablo 2 trying to be like Baldur's Gate using your reasoning.

How? Are you saying that because they both use classical RPG elements, which every RPG worth it's salt with a fantasy setting uses that they are highly similar? Give me a fucking break! That's like saying that soccer and baseball are similar games, because they both involve teams of players who have to do something with a ball! Hell, why not say that every new RPG on the market with a fantasy setting is like Baldur's Gate because they use elements that Baldur's Gate obviously invented because it was the first RPG I ever played, it came out first therefore every game must be copying it, when in fact, Baldur's Gate isn't that original itself (with regards to those aspects).

Sheriff Fatman, I honestly don't see how you can see people like this as anything but imbeciles (unless, of course, you've changed your opinion about them :smile: - either that or I read your post wrong).

Oh, by the way, the creators of Arcanum also created Fallout. Why they would want to emulate a seriously inferior game like Baldur's Gate when they have a game like Fallout under its belt - which, by the way, revived the modern RPG almost by itself, and without it, Baldur's Gate wouldn't have had the success it enjoyed - is beyond me.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -

IMBECILES!!!

 

I don't think BG was so inferior, sure the role playing is limited but the battles rule.
for a rpg pen 'n paper player like me, BG was really cool, especially the first part since it had more of a "beginner" party feel.
I never really survive long enough to reach BG2

 

Jarinor and the Sheriff said most of it, but I really need to make a few corrections & additions to Jinxed's post:

And you call yourself a pen & paper player? Vampire: the Masquerade is the name of an RPG by White Wolf, set in the World of Darkness setting, using the Storyteller ruleset. It has nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, to do with AD&D. Believe me, I have years upon years of playing both under my belt, and they are on opposite ends of the pen & paper RPG spectrum. I like 'em both, by the way, and still play both regularly (well, I play D&D third edition now instead of AD&D, but that's still D&D)
The computer game based on Vampire: the Masquerade is called Redemption (well the full name would be Vampire: the Masquerade - Redemption).
Oh, and it's "Menzoberranzan", and the publisher of that game was SSI, who've published a shitload of AD&D-based games, and it was developed by Dreamforge, who also made the Ravenloft computer games.

As for similarities, I'd hardly call anything "standard in any RPG", but like I said, when two games use the same genre as (part of) their inspiration (the sword & sorcery fantasy genre, in this case) some similarities are bound to arise.

_________________
I am the evil dictator around here. My word is law, and my will shall be obeyed! PH34R M3!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Calis on 2001-11-23 11:31 ]</font>

 

maybe I did go over the edge there a bit. The point was that Rpg games take from AD&D alot like BG frankly it is AD&D. But lets backtrack alittle. d&d was the first I think so you can say that all rpg games have more or less d&d. d&d had first concepts that influenced all CRPG gaming today. and thats all. You can say Jagged Alliance would be like RECON but I don't see much similiarities in these two. They just deal with guns. But alot of spells effects saving throw concepts life concepts that were originally taken from d&d. They are very mutated now and the similiarities are very vague.
edit: those are the standard things but as I said they have undergone much evolution from the original their states

_________________
Iyaan-na Kanji Nigecha dame da
I'm gonna dance on your grave

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jinxed on 2001-11-23 11:49 ]</font>

 

Wow, Jarinor really has a bee in his bonnet about the BG comparisons doesn't he? So much so that he feels he can just insult people for pointing out the obvious.

All I know is, if I were trying to explain to someone what Arcanum was, I'd have to start by saying 'it's like Baldur's Gate'.
Of course it is more complex, has a different skill system, has the unique Victorian Technology/Magick scenario and is much more advanced than BG, but the similarities remain. Sorry if that upsets some people so much.

Now if I'd said that Baldur's Gate was actually better than Arcanum, I could at least understand...

 

I would say it's like Fallout. Comparing Pool of Radiance I would go as far saying it's like baldurs gate. Darkstone like diablo, Saying Arcanum is like BG is like sayin Deus EX is like Quake. And that my friend is bull.

 

When I go into a pool, I jump in the deep end straight off. Maybe that explains my attitude :smile:.

Okay, I can respect and understand your viewpoint Fatman, but then I realised one day, that the way I was going about life was too easy, I wasn't sticking to my convictions trying to please everyone. So now, I decide on an opinion or viewpoints (however wrong or right it may be, I do not always believe in the position I take up though) and defend and promote it.

If I'm proved wrong, to the victor go the spoils, but at least I didn't compromise my position. I believe that sticking to a position can be more important than actually retreating when outnumbered so to speak. I respect people who do stick to their conviction, then when proved wrong don't act the sore loser. I'm more than happy to debate people and have logical arguments (not that I necessarily believe in the position that I've taken up, sometimes I do though). I hold the same opinion as you regarding your last couple of paragraphs, I'm just more vocal and fanatical about making and defending my point :smile:. Hope that's a clear enough explanation.