Evolution of a 'Jolly Old Elf'

Blinky, being hypocritical is only a human thing, but I'd like to see you give more than just a few examples of me being a hypocrite or holier-than-thou. See a therapist, Blinky. Your need to lower people down so you can be at their level is making you sound more stupid ever day.

 

Little things:

1. one of the most effective tools in philosophy is a little thing called Occam's Razor, named after William of Ockham who first employed it. What it says, essentially, is that one should always minimize one's data and steps. More information means more chances for mistakes. This leads to the dictum that if you can prove x without y, y is unnecessary and should be discarded, as y adds nothing to the argument and only leads to more chances for mistakes. This works for developing any hypothesis. God is y. Any situation in the cosmos that can be explained satisfactorally with God can be explained equally well without, and so bringing God into the equation only leads to mistakes.

2. God has no explanatory power, meaning entering the idea into any argument adds exactly nothing to the validity of that argument.

3. It is as valid to assume God as it is to assume little green aliens, a psychotic hyperdimensional multidimensional cheese danish. They all make for good stories, but all aid our understanding of the universe equally, i.e. none, and faith in each is equally absurd. This argument also invaldates Kierkegaard, who argues that we should be Christian because it is the most absurd act, and in the face of the harrowing despair of living and deciding, absurdity, faith, is the only recourse. I counter that worshipping a psychotic hyperdimensional multidimensional cheese danish is patently more absurd, and give us equal satisfaction. Perhaps the latter gives us more, as the afterlife would be tasty.

4. The function of God within logical proof is that of a false premise. In sentence A>B, if A is false, the B can have any infinite number of values. Think of it this way: If I eat a million cakes, I will be very fat. BUT, if I do not eat a million cakes, I might be thin, fat, very fat, somewhat fat, dead, superman, a planet, anything. Adding God to any equation has the same function as this, or any other false premise. I'm bad at chemistry, but I think it explains this best. Say H + O + energy -> water + energy. OK, if you say H + O + energy + God's will, then it could yield a pleather sofa instead of water. If I add another false premise, say H+O+energy+Labyrinthian's superpowers, I also could end up with anything, even a pleather sofa.

 

Ah, so now we see the reason for belief. It's not believing independent of all other factors, it's believing because you can't think of any other reason - if something fucks up, you can always put it down to God's will, whatever the hell that is. Is your belief a crutch to prop you up, or something you'd have regardless of your situation in life and attitude to your current situation? The way you've put it, you sound incredibly fatalistic, as if there's no point in trying anything because the result is predetermined anyway.

 

not fatalistic, actually. that implies that i think everything is hopeless. i prefer to think that bad things happen for a good reason that i just don't understand right now. and if my faith is a crutch, then thank God i'm crippled.

 

Just to be clear on the facts and annoy you the real quote is "THE godS help those who help themselves." Its taken from an aeesop fable where a farmers wagon wheel breaks and he prays to the godS for help. Then Hercules comes from the clouds and says that quote, then leave the poor farmer with a broken wheel. And no i dont believe in greek gods i just like aeesop fables. but maybe not enough to spell his name write.

 

Ok Sleek, she'll cast a spell on you right after you get Buddha, Jesus Christ, and any other large religious icon to come forth, and prove thier existance. Your asking for proof, even though you argued there can be no proof for religion.

 

Personally I don't think much of humanity as a whole, so we share an opinion there I guess. I just know what to blame - human nature. You seem to prefer to lay it all at God's feet for some reason. It's just yet another example of shifting responsibility in today's society.

As I said, I prefer to think that bad things happen because fucked up people made it so (excluding natural disasters and the ilk).

You know, this probably isn't a good attitude for you to have.

 

why? is it harming anyone? i still take responsibility for my own actions. i'm talking about things that i have no explanation for. instead of being negative and saying "there's nothing i can do, it's all hopeless, i'm gonna die, waaa", i just shrug and say "well, there's a reason my life sucks right now, i just don't understand it, i'll try to fix whatever i'm doing wrong and then it will get better" i could give a damn if anyone else takes responsibility for their actions. they're not really any of my business.

 

I'm actually more worried about the attitude you're going to pass off on to your kid. Just because you have no explanation for any given event/situation doesn't mean you should attribute all of it to a single entity.

This is a good attitude.

 

Buddha was a real person, and really did not have anything to do with a relgion, it was entirely philosophies for how to live life, nothing supernatural involved.

 

I was simply using that as an example Ick, he *is* one of the major religious idols, and, considering I know nothing of Islam, a fairly good one to name since I know of very few others.

 

Okay, how about you tell that to all the psychologically scarred and fucked up people out there, who ended up that way because of their terrible childhood and what their parents taught them, either through actions or words. YOU FUCKING MORON!

Children learn everything by observing those around them, and suggesting that they have the mental capacity to pick and choose what they learn is the dumbest thing I've read all day. That you also imply they know the difference between 'right' and 'wrong' is also incorrect because hey, that's another thing they learn from their parents.

 

Jar you wouldn't happen to be one of said people would you?

Anyway, Jar actually has a point, looking back, I don't know wtf must have been going through my head when I was younger than 10. Seriously, I did some stupid shit, and EVERYTHING I learned I picked up from my grandparents, my mom, my sisters, my friends. I learned to curse at 7. Cursing at 7 is wrong. So why didn't I just choose not to learn to curse?

 

i'm not sure that's what he meant... of course children can't tell the differnce between right and wrong by themselves, they have to be taught. but once you get older, you're not a carbon copy of your parents. you take what they taught you, and apply the things you've learned since moving away from them, and you pass that combination on to your own offspring. besides all of which, there are people who choose to turn their backs on their entire upbringing, and do things differently. it's part of being an adult. you choose how you want to live.

 

Then from what your saying is that people have no free choice. Every action,decision,and thought is based exactly as are parents. Then im sure there would be twice as many fucked up people in the world. Yes some are shitty parents and ruin their childrens lives, look at saddam. His parents where alcoholics, his father beat him and his mother, and they lived in poverty. WHat happened, he later on kills his father and takes over the country as dictator. I admit his parents fucked up and scarred him. but thats not the case with everyone. other wise wouldnt the basic thought of everyone come down from the parental upbring from the cavemen.

 

I was arguing this point:

You were implying that from the first, children knew good and bad, and which lessons to learn and which to not. You simply took my counter argument too far.