Daniel Pearl's Death

I'd disagree. They might be twisted, and perhaps insane, but bin Laden, and most other leaders who do the things he does, are hardly fools. You can't be a moron and build a network like he has.

His followers on the other hand, are most likely fools. You'd have to be a fool not to notice that bin Laden speaks out against the western world while keeping his scheduale on a Timex watch.

I don't know about these days, but when I went to school, they taught us that Germany did invade France. They also did a few air attacks on Great Britian as well.

Yeah, he did. There's no arguing that Hilter rebuilt Germany. You can't take a country that's been totally crippled like Germany was, and raise it to a power capable of the war he waged, during a global depression, without building Germany up financially.

He may have been psychotic and intolerant, but he sure as hell did a good job of raising Germany from a crippled state to a world power.

Germany did have free elections up until the Nazis took over. In fact, Hilter was the one who abolished them. He believed that democracy was flawed, but it was also a tool with which he could ascend to power so that he could destroy it.

When you think about it, the fact he was able to do this kind of proves his "democracy is flawed" belief.

 

Or it could just show that the German 1920's/30's implementation of democracy was flawed.

You don't have to be a moron to be foolish. In today's media dominated global political arena, strategies based upon terrorism seem to be even more futile than ever. It is foolish to think that, in the face of all the evidence, such a strategy - however cunning/clever- might accomplish your ends.

Sure, it's the followers doing the dying, and they must be a warped and deluded lot, but what has bin Laden achieved through his actions? He started with (or built up, if that's what happened) a secret organisation, able to recruit and train agents and who received a certain amount of sympathy from various sources for various reasons. This organisation managed to "declare war on the USA" whilst not having the USA at war with them.

Then, through evil and I believe, incredibly foolish action, he started a chain of events that have led to his organisation being exposed and decimated, most of the sympathisers deserting him and a western world several orders of magnitude more vigilant against terrorism.

There is a notable lack of wisdom in most of this, that I'd say would be fair to label foolish.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sheriff Fatman on 2002-02-25 05:25 ]</font>

 

Yeah, I did learn it at school. Spent the better part of 6 months studying Nazi Germany and Hitler's rise to power in detail. Pretty good unit actually, I really enjoyed it. I'm not a Hitler sympathiser - I think he was a total prick, but in some areas I am forced to admit that he did an admirable job. The original title of his book ("Mein Kampf" or "My Story") was something like 10 or 15 words long, and is the funniest book title I've ever come across. I can't remember it because of it's length and complication...He wrote it while in prison as well..

Saint_Proverbius argued the points I was trying to make beautifully.

 

Sometime's we step on our dicks because they are so damn big.

 

Long! LONG!

 

Yeah, like, the reason I don't walk around in the nude in my house, is I get carpet burns on my dick.

One day I was taking a whiz outside, and I looked down and my dick was feeding on acorns. Had to get the cattle prod.

 

Having just recently finished a 10 year stint in the US Military I feel the need to make a few comments.
The one thing Hitler, Bin Laden, and all the rest of these wackos have a lot of is Charisma. They may not be that smart but they are able to convince people that ARE to work for them. They are also able to convince people to kill themselves for a belief. Now, they have good military minds and a bunch of suicidal sheep to lead to the slaughter. It's not that difficult to do anymore. These days people are looking for ANYTHING to believe in to give their dull, depressing lives meaning. It has happened in the past as well. Hitler was able to give the German people something to believe in, that's why they prospered. Do any of you remember Jonestown? (Where that cult leader convinced his "congragation" to kill themselves with cyanide Kool-Aid) What if he had given them machine-guns and set them loose in downtown New York?
As for Daniel Pearl. He was killed because he was American. Yes, the media wants you to believe it was because he was a Jew. That didn't matter. He was American and they hate us because we have the freedom to the things they can't. Now, I am not some radical God Bless the US type. I realize that we have some problems. I just wish that all these psycho's would just shut up and leave us the f*ck alone.

 

I'm not sure how much of mind control is in the control of the charismatic wacko. I think a lot of it is already in the mind of the follower wackos.

I'd be guessing that they don't hate you because you have freedoms they don't. That sounds more like a reason an American would like to believe.

I'm guessing they have been indoctrinated for years to believe that Americans are evil for various reasons, some religious, some cultural, some economic, some military.

The people doing the indoctrinating, as rich, powerful leaders, probably have freedoms you don't and promote their evil for political, financial or some other gain. Or maybe - like Hitler - because they are insane.

 

The question is why are the followers so receptive to the insane dribble of their leaders? And why do the leaders feel the need to teach them that Americans are evil. The reason is, like it or not America is the most high profile and influential country in the world. If America collaped the world would suffer. There would be numerous countries that would go down with it.
Fatman, you are correct that the reasons are religious, cultural, economic, and militay. We have the most religious freedoms, cultural freedoms, the best free economic system, and the world's strongest military (still completely volunteer). This seems to piss a lot of people off. Why? Because they are JEALOUS. That's what it really comes down to. They want what we have. They also operate under the policy - "If I can't have it than nobody can!". That's what they are working for.

 

America is hated by many due to bombing of former allies. Take Iraq for instance: First they support an evil despot (Saddam) in an attempt to overthrow something that is viewed as more evil (Iran's fundamentalistic regime). This fails and results in a long and bloody war. Then Saddam's proves his evil by invading Quwait and the U.S. attacks their former friend in order to protect their interests (oil). After the war Saddam's still holds his power and a lot of people are really pissed off.

It's of course a bit more complicated than this but there's plenty of fuel for anyone who wants to stir up hatred against America.

 

I will not disagree with you. We helped the Taliban into power as well. But, if a country is in trouble do they go to the UN and ask for Tunisia's help. Fuck no! They want America to bail them out. Our only problem is trying to keep everybody happy while not trying to step on our own dick.

 

When I said religious issues I was referring to the fact that Islam has a history of friction with Christianity, and both religions have some intolerant extremes, exacerbating them.

I specifically didn't mean "Yeah, they're jealous of what a good religious system you guys have," and I don't believe that to be the case. I would assume that most devout Muslims are proud of their religion and feel no envy toward countries (like my own) filled with (from their perspective) heathens.

I'd also question your claim that jealousy is the prime motivation on the other issues, also, although it probably plays a part.

 

I am still shuddering over Jar's post advocating Government censorship of the media. If you like your democracy you have got t like your media. Are there abuses by reporters of the truth to get a good story? Sure, but so what if a critical institution screws up you try to reform it not dump it out the window.

 

Sheriff, I agree that jealousy may not be the prime reason, but it is the easiest to exploit. Just show them some pictures of an American's "ideal" life and tell them that they live that way because they run rough-shod over the rest of the world and it becomes easy to fan the flames of hate.

As for speaking about religious freedoms, I was not implying that we have a good religious "system". I was stating that in America you can be any religion you want, be it Christian, Muslim, Buddism, whatever. In a lot of these countries run by military regiems it is not that way. You are persectuted for having different beliefs. In all cases these so-called Muslims have perverted the religion to use as an excuse for killing. Plus, I think they are still pissed about the Crusades.

 

Actually Fatman I believe that we are Infidels rather than Heathens

 

So stepping on your own dick is being a bad guy??? I think it would be worse to step on someone else's dick. Unless he stepped on it first and then he is the bad guy.

 

You don't have to like journalists. Many do a really bad job, but it's certainly better than allowing governments to go about unchecked. Even democratic governments have some corruption (except in CivII).

 

Okay, government censorship of the media isn't a good thing, I'll agree with that. I'm saying, journalists can be real pricks to people who just need to be left alone. I used a really bad example is all.

 

Vlad... I'm confused... "step on our own dick"?..

 

I can see what you're saying, and sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick about the religion thing. When you made your comment, I had sickening flashbacks to a guy who used come here, wave his flag, wear his flag, fire his gun into the air and say things like "No, sir, I will not be persuaded by your evil rationality."

I personally suspect, although have no grounds I could point to, that the indoctrination into hate includes quite a lot of outright lying. Rather than pointing to an American having a an ideal life (in fact, it may not even seem ideal to someone from their vastly different culture), I would imagine they make claims like "Americans are responsible for such and such a disease," "The British are experimenting on your children," etc.

This is the second time you have politely put me straight. IS it possible I have finally met my Broom? For years, I have had to be the Broom for others. How sweet it would be to know I have my own ...