Arcanum vs Baldur's Gate 2 (including ToB)?

I'd say, if two things have something in common, you can compare them in terms of the common ground.

As for non-linearity of the games, they were all linear to a greater or lesser extent. They all had a plot that only developed after key events/actions had been negotiated, and the plot always developed into one of a limited number of permutations. They also all had a fair number of things you could do which were nothing to do with the main plot, or not integral to it.

It could be argued, especially of Fallout, that the games allowed the character to take different paths along the main plot. I'd say this is multi-linear.

For a non-linear game, I think there would actually have to be no main plot, or one so vague (i.e. such a huge number of different paths that developed in subtle ways) as to be unnoticable for most of the game.

 

Perhaps you need to look up the term, "linear".

 

Sure IWD was very linear. Storylines are linear, obviously. In all games. Unless you leave out the story line. I am speaking of gameplay. But I wont get into too big of a discussion here as there in my mind is no way to really compare these games. Wich was my point in the first place. I have played Bg 1 and 2 and even the disapointing TOB. I stayed away from IWD ( returned it in fact )
And the games are way too differant. Look for more similarities to compare in NWN.

 

isn't that what civ3 is?

 

Well, yes, but Civ3 is a strategy game, where linearity is not much of an issue. I believe the current discussions of linearity are with regard to RPG games.

 

yeah, yeah, yeah... give me a minute while i try to think of a non-linear rpg...

 

Good luck, Rosie.

*starts the timer*

 

Darklands and Daggerfall. But they both suffered for it unforetunantly. As well as a pluthera of unfixed bugs. TES will make its comeback later this month, BUt Darklands is dead and buried, Interplay states that the designer is no longer with the company so they will no never or can never make a Darklands 2. And that sucks, maybe Troika can uy the liscense for it. :grin: Who even remember's it other than this old fossil? It was the first ever attempt at a nonlinear rpg with a great if not rather restrictive rpg system.
No levels whatsoever you just got better at what you do. The stat system needed more flexibility though.

 

Microprose made Darklands.

The last patch made the game playable.

Microprose sold the rights to a group of fans who are now printing CD's and selling the game again.

Oh and as for main topic of this thread.

Its a matter of personal taste so play whatever you want. Its your time and money afterall.

 

I wish I didn't say this so I won't

AAARG

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Amos Trask on 2002-03-10 07:46 ]</font>

 

Er did I say Interplay? Must have had Imoen on my mind heh :grin: Microprose yeh heh.

Anyway that last patch did make it playable but it still suffered. Who has the rights now? Any chance they have the ability to make a number 2? I have been looking for a non oldwharez copy of it where do I find it?

 

http://www.ultimatedarklands.com/

They want $20 USD for it. Which seems a little *cough* steep to me. Especially since its been floating for free on the web for years.

 

Not sure if this was mentionned since I haven't read the whole thing

But what most people ignore is the fact that IN AD&D henchmen aren't NPC's in terms of adventurer's that join you.

henchmen are cooks, Soldiers, Archers etc people that your Character has to pay.

Henchmen are NPC's that are hired to protect your stronghold, to do services in the stronghold etc that's why you need charisma, because this means they'll be more loyal to you and won't charge you more for their services.

AD&D has no NPC limit when it comes for adventurer's that join since they join at their own choice, and have no loyalties to the PC unless they share a common goal or if they have a personnal attraction to the PC etc.

You could have over 100 NPC's with you without limit in AD&D if they were adventurer's, but you can't because it's too much lol.

But as when it comes to henchmens people keep forgetting that they aren't the PC version of a NPC. They are just hired help.

I know, I know the rules by heart and played 2nd ed for over 12 years. And we used the henchmens rules alot.Henchmen are only available to those that have strongholds. No stronghold means no henchmen meaning NPC's that a DM made to help with some of the quest or with the main plot are not treated as henchmen since you aren't paying em. And also because once the quest is done or the main plot of the game is done they move on. Unless they get into a relationship with a PC either it be friendship or more. The fact of using Charisma to limit NPC's in Fallout and in Arcanum is to prevent mobs in the PC game.

Since in games like Fallout and Arcanum mobs tend to make life harder considering they got a mind of their own and you can't really control em. True there's the commands but they aren't that usefull.

While in AD&D games, mobs are easier to manage because of the way the game is made.

The guards in the D'Arnis keep and the helpers, the major domo, etc are Henchmen. (Taken from BG2). The Shadow Thiefs, and all the other thiefs that work for you when you get the thief's guild are Henchmen.

And don't give me that BS about NPC's like Viconia etc being considered as henchmen since they aren't henchmen, they do not work for you for payment. They help your cause, and help you because they have reasons to do so either it be because the NPC requires your help for something, because he/she's using you as protection etc....

Difference between henchmen and NPC's in D&D is Henchmans loyalty come from the money you give em(they got a monthly fee), and the Charismatic ability your character has into convincing them that all is good.

While Adventuring NPC's do not require payments, and Charisma will only effect how they see you. Some will either get angry because of the way you treat people and leave or others might like you more and so on.

Adventuring NPC's have nothing to do With Charisma, the charisma is only used in that case to add colour to the relation the PC has with the NPC. And in some case acts like a determination if the NPC will join since some won't join because your too disgusting etc. But will not limit their numbers.

henchmen are minions, adventuring NPC's aren't minions.

And if you would use the henchmen rules, it means that basicly D&D would be playable only by 1 PC. Since the leader of the group would have the ability to have fellow PC's join him considering you can only have Henchmens once you got a stronghold.

Anyways just wanted to say that. I know someone will find a way to twist my words but what I said are the facts.

Also I feel that comparing both games is not very good since they are different styles of RPGS. Arcanum is open ended and BG series is story driven. Both games use different style which are both good.

I enjoyed BG2 more than Arcanum, true some of the fights are hard. But if you play it tacticly and use your head when it comes to fighting some of the fights become easier specially when you use the full spells and skills without having to worry if the NPC's won't do it.

their both really good games. Though Arcanum could use more improvement. Specially about the Joinable NPC's having more command options. I played Every Black Isle RPG's
Fallout, Fallout 2, IWD and Planescape torment

And Every Bioware Games Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. Yes it's not black Isles that made BG series, they only distributed it.

And IWD was rather boring, and so was BG1 but Torment and BG2 were great.
Arcanum was great, but like I said could of been better.

Their all good RPG's in their own way. Saying one sucks isn't the right way to say it unless you truly played through it.
To be completely closed minded about it also shows ignorance more than anything else.

Everyone has their own opinion but to force your opinion on others isn't the way of doing it. And to flame others because of their opinions is even worst.

Anyways I like em both, though I got bored of Arcanum lately so I'm letting it pick up some dust until I get into the mood to play it again. If Troika are going to make Arcanum II I hope they fix alot of the gameplay problems and make the NPC's more flexible for tactical play.

 

welcome feralwolf :wavey:

*scurries away before DU notices*

 

AHEM... (vlad, come home soon, please)

"Welcome to the Forum, Feralwolf!" :wavey:

 

Hi Feralwolf :wavey:

 

ty

Just hate it when people miss read or misunderstand the rules in games lol.

 

i used to play with a group of d&d freaks that didn't believe in rules... things got very strange, very quickly... things like neverending pouches of fried pickles, barbarians playing chess, and talking mice...

 

lol.

reminds me of the ale barrel that never seemed to run out.