Arcanum biased towards mages?

I'm starting to agree that magick owns tech.

For one, tech people rely a lot on random luck for getting good schematics from shops. They rely on dumb luck for a lot of these components as well.

In my first game, I had the schematics for the Accellerated Gun, which requires the High Velocity Pistol to make. I never could find the schematics for the HVP, so that ended that.

I also wanted to make a Helm of Vision. I never could find the leather straps after I got that schematic, which you need to make it.

Right now, I have a melee/tech char and I'm wanting to make a Feather Weight Axe. However, I can't find an axe handle, so I can't make it. GRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr!

 

didnt i tell u?
magick IS better :smile:
heed well the wise words of Kristof, deadliest of archmages!

 

Well, they could EASILY fix that problem if they'd adjust the levels of what shops sell. Tech shops should sell a minimum of three schematics at any given time, IMHO.

Also, increasing the amount of components they sell would also be a huge help.

 

u shoulv started as buglar u would have a revolver than those wolves would suck one

and arcanum is NOT towards mages cause everyone is prejudiced and are like " fuck off u gonna blow up something "

 

Saint,

Have you tried the junk dealers? They usually have the leather straps, axe handles, and other needed components...

P.S. It's also a bitch for the mages to find good equipment, they have to go to the dungeons to get the best armor, weapons, and the like. And that's not guaranteed because what you get is random...

 

Most of the tech disciplines are only useful after about 15th level. GO for a a smashing melee character first, and start out with smithy stuff. Trust me.

 

Yeah, I visit junk dealers all the time to sell stuff in one location.

Also, I think they really need to up the stats on those tech melee weapons.

The Feather Weight Axe does 1-16 damage, so it's damage average is 8.5. It only has a speed of 13, IIRC. It's supposed to be a step up from the Balanced Sword, which had a speed of 18 and does 3-12 damage. On average, the Balanced Sword does 7.5 damage.

Now, for low level magick people, there's the Sword of Air. It's got a speed of 12, about the same as the Feather Weight Axe, but it does 5-20 damage! That's an average of 12.5!
Now, when you factor in damage resistant monsters, a melee/tech person is only going to be doing 3-6 damage versus those level 20 something creatures. Meanwhile, the melee/magick character is going to be slicing them up doing 7-10, assuming that magick/melee hasn't upgraded by then!

There's a long, long dry spell for the Melee/Tech character between Feather Weight Axe and charged axe/charged sword too. In fact, if the tech character wants something between those, he has to dump points in to electrical and go for shocking staff.

Hell, they could also help out tech greatly by allowing the damage modifier on the Dwarven Gauntlets(+7) to count towards melee attacks as well as just plain HtH. After all, dwarven gauntlets are forth level smithy tech, which you probably won't get until around level 18 or so.

_________________


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saint_Proverbius on 2001-09-05 10:35 ]</font>

 

Saint. The balanced sword has speed 23 making it one of the best weapons in the game.

 

If u go to the gypsies, they normally have some wicked stuff and magic armouries do too... and mage shops. Filament sword nice!
Also, it aint so bad going into dungeons because thats where the experience and therefore character points are.

 

That's only if you have apprentice training in melee, I used the "raw speed" of the weapons for the above.

It still doesn't matter how fast it is, it doesn't do any damage.

Okay, look at it like this. I can swing my balanced sword seven times doing an average of 7.5 damage per swing. The monster I'm fighting has a damage resistance of 40%. That means I'm only doing 4.5 damage per swing. I can hope to do roughly 30 points damage per attack.

With the sword of air and the same character, I can swing it five times doing 12.5 damage on average. Factoring in the damage resistance, that's 7.5 average damage per swing. For five attacks, that's 37.5 damage per turn.

Considering you can get both these weapons at about the same time in the game, I'd say the advantage is that of the magick using swordsman.

 

Well I play a pure mage. Level 50. Level 5 in Black, White, Force, Mental, Temporal, Illusion, Conveyance. Level 3 In Fire and Meta. Admittedly I could have spent the points on getting some fighting skills (I have only the fighting abilities that Velorians blessing gives but expert melee and dodge are good enough for me) but I much prefer magical versatility.

My only companion is Dog. But would you like to meet Dog when he has Haste, Agility of Fire and I have a Tempus Fugit spell going? Gives him a speed of 70. And I still have a free slot to put a shield around whichever of us needs it most :smile:

Seriously, I tried a tech character for a bit. Yikes - what a pain in the ass. Walking everywhere, keeping track of masses of inventory. Waiting for those damned arachnids that make slugs look like sportscars! I did LOVE the Time Bomb though. Its almost enough to keep me playing a techie.

Some points raised earlier: First on teleportation - waste of points? You have got to be kidding. I believe the quote was "me(the techie)=more experience, you=5 points wasted on Conveyance" Well I'll point out that at level 50 (which is all too easy to reach) experience is meaningless. So that equation sould be revised to: me=go nearly anywhere instantly, you=waste lots of time.

As to magic not making money? OK thats just absurd. Dominate Will + Unlocking Cantrip. Walk in. Dominate the shopkeeper. Unlock his chest. Take all his stuff. Command him to wait by talking to him. Leave. End spell. Sell elsewhere. Advance time one day. Shopkeeper's inventory has refilled. Rinse and repeat. All the money you could want. There are more sophisticated variations which allow you to do this without making the shopkeepers hate you - but the quick and dirty way is good enough in a pinch.

Now the fun stuff. If I feel like going through a dungeon with NO combat I just use invisibility. With a regen rate of 6 I can maintain it indefinitely if I walk. And if I run I just use a potion now and again.

Disintegrate is just abusive. And if you've Mastered force it only costs 25 points to use. Tired of having to pick off off hordes of vermin one by one? One fireflash does the job in one shot.

And of course Harm is just so handy.

Mages are also grossly good at leveling up on the world map. Because whenever you move on the world map your fatigue refills, you enter each battle fully refreshed and can unload you big spells on the monsters, both killing them off rapidly AND getting the maximum exp gain for their deaths. No followers taking the per blow exp.

I would say magic wins hands down for convenience (Unlock, Teleport, free inventory except for potions) power (Disintegrate) early game ease (Harm) and versatility (Dominate Will, Invisibility, Resurrection).

Tech has TOYS though. And making things is fun. Magic is really too easy in some ways. Tech looks like its more of a challenge.

 

Harm with 100 magic on the magic/tech meter is good all through the game.

That fireball spell rocks - I three hit all the demons at the Ruby glade with it. Thats a cost of 45 willpower to wax 7 level 13 beasties.

Teleport is awesome since you can do te rounds of the cities to equip your guys. Unlock with 100 magic means every door/chest in the game will open automatically without chance of jamming, unless is a quest door like the safe in the Zoological society or that chest room at the Wheel Clan. You can't pick those without fate points either - a fate point that also maxes out the spell.

High willpower for magic means its easy to master haggle - talk about massive monetary income. And paying sweet FA for kit.

I don't bother raising con with a mage - pump willpower early to give a boost to fatigue, then leave it. As a master in haggle paying 19 gold for a potion of greater fatigue restoration, it frees up adequate points.

Also, having 100 magic means that when Virgil/Raven/Dante heals you, it works well. Play eveil so that Virgil gets to 50th level and he resurrects you when you die - bonus!

 

As far as the melee vs magic weapons go, I have a few points to make.
1. You can have both you and Virgil equipped with balanced swords in Shrouded Hills at level 1 for roughly 10 gold, whilst swords of air cost several thousand gold and I believe are two handed (correct me if I am wrong)
2. The charged sword schematic seems fairly rare, but it can still be obtained shortly after you reach tarant, and for 120 gold you can trade in those two balanced swords for something with a little more power...Get it? Ha ha...Anyways...
3. You can also have pyrotechnic axes shortly after you reach tarant, for about 50 gold apiece. They may be slow, but you can't argue with 30-50 fire damage on top of your normal melee. Plus, they are axes, and so don't take damage from hitting most wooden and stone things.

I haven't had much experience with high level weapons of either type, but the filament sword is pretty cool, esecially on virgil since he can heal himself when he nearly cuts off his arm, and the axe of lost time is fun as well.

As for the whole tech vs mage thing, a good gun techie will have several types of gun, one for each damage. The grenade launcher is especially potent against mages, as is the tranquilizer gun. And let us not forget all those wonderful grenades. Hallucinatory, mustard gas, knock out gas: the list goes on and on. So techies have a few tricks up their sleeves as well

 

the biggest problem with techie characters is that they have to lug around a great deal of totally useless stuff- until they find the other totally useless stuff that makes the two collections of useless stuff into useful stuff (follow me?)
Mages, on the other hand, can do with maybe two or three weapons and one or two pieces of armor and they'll be fine.
None of the techie disciplines is useful in combat. If you haven't already prepared the items you need, you're screwed. Or maybe Railroad SPiked.
Mages, on the other hand, have a wide variety of damageing spells to choose from. It's possible to kill just about anything with maybe three or four blasts of Harm, or just one Quench Life or Disintegrate.
Techies have to waste bullets by the dozens on critters as weak as Ailing Wolves for a long, long time. Ah, yes, the horribleness of the Repeater Rifle is coming back to me...
*shudder*

 

i have no more difficulty with my techie then melee guy. i crafted a fine revoler i think, which is alot better then the one doc gives u, and recieved expert training, and put as much in firearms as 13 PE would allow, and my tech apt is over 60 before i am in tarant. miricle operation is really great, that 2 in speed however makes you think

and i dont see how can u get this game 2 months ago...unless of course you coudlnt wait and got pirate version be4 the release