Paint your perfect RPG

So you're stood perhaps-bollock-naked-but-likely-not-because-it's-the-internet-in-front-of-Kickstarter and now you've got to pitch your heartfelt RPG (if that's how Kickstarter really operates, I'd imagine they're more than happy to gobble your money like hungry Morlocks without making you feel pressurised, and if that's how you'd imagine yourself in a socially compromised situation - most likely you're really dressed as a schoolgirl or things are probing you or just as likely you are dressed as you would be in every day life, but that crushing feeling of social ineptitude and self-doubt is already acute enough so that you have the sensation of being naked in public even though you are still fully clothed)...

Go!*

*Note that if you have a credible idea, I and maybe others won't hesitate to steal it from you and claim it as our own.

 

Mario Paint and Mario RPG win this thread.

 

As if they do, you need to paint a glorious/world endingly horrific sight of your artistic vision to win the thread.

 

If there is some way to gain status, like a title or nobility or whatever, it should be reflected in conversation with NPCs. (I like the little things.)

 

Re:

Couldn't agree more. Not having the world respond as it ought to is a huge immersion breaker This is why I generally prefer games without voice-acting, since it allows these things to be added if a new rep/title etc gets added later on.

For example, I was very annoyed over not being able to discuss having met/killed/saved a certain man wrapped in bandages with a certain bald man, in a certain post-nuclear role playing game taking place in the area around a famous city known for gambling and organized crime, among other things.

Spoiler

Discussing Joshua Graham with Caesar in Fallout New Vegas. The reason:

 

OK OK, in more seriousness, a classless character system is the way to go. I guess that would make the characters skill based. Is there another model for character definition and advancement?

 

I like the idea of the Elder Scrolls system where your skills advance as you practice them, but the execution is quite awful, forcing you to avoid doing things so that you won't level up before you can handle the levelled up enemies (that is, if you don't abuse alchemy and enchanting).

Classlessness is certainly a must, as you say. I also favour the systems of Deus Ex and Bloodlines (and I'm a lot of others, I'm sure), where you gain XP for quest completion only, encouraging alternative approaches rather than grinding. This is, as you all know, one of Arcanum's greatest flaws.

 

I start to despise level scaling when the Daedric-armored bandits come in.

 

Oh yes, it's quite despicable. I've always wondered why the bandits don't sell their armour and live large for the rest of their lives.

Dragon Age does pretty much the same thing. When you're at about the 20th level almost every guard's got weapons made out of dragonbone. Makes the quest where you get to hunt dragons at allow your own equipment to be created from its skin seem pretty ridiculous.

 

I start to despise it when I find some sweet piece of loot, say an ebony sword or some such, only to suddenly find 19 more in the same dungeon. I guess my ideal RPG would have only unique items, except for the really run-of-the-mill stuff like the standard "sword" or "rusty dagger". And it probably wouldn't be an all-out slaughterfest; combat is fun, but if that's all your game consists of, the story probably sucks.

 

Re:

What? Just because you could grind in Arcanum didn't mean you had to. I found Arcanum's XP payout for quest completion attractive enough not to grind.

 

Re: Re:

I concur.

 

Re: Re:

Okay, I admit that Arcanum isn't the worst offender. But the fact is that a grinder levels up a lot faster, than a stealthy character. Even if you're playing a diplomatic character and talked your way to the dwarven king (for XP, which is nice) you'd still earn more XP if you cleared the dungeon he's in afterwards. My opinion is that all approaches should award the same amount of XP, as long as the player accomplishes the same goals. Again, it's true that Arcanum isn't a very serious offender, especially compared with Fallout 2, where a random encounter with a bunch of Wannamingo's (or however it's spelled) awarded almost twice as much XP as most quests.

 

I found the unarmed combat quests to be very rewarding in fallout 2, mostly because I grinded (ground?) through all the fight tournaments, but with just that, speech and science i was able to power level without any random encounters.

Also, I think it's clever how, in elder scrolls, you are forced to acknowledge your gameplay style as your character strengths. It is nice to know that every skill point has a legitimate basis in your character's history. Even spamming smithing or (god help you) jumping gives a backstory to your character sheet. Like a jumping blacksmith, for one.

As to my ideal rpg, it would have to be introspective and profound. The setting would be as wide as a pond, as deep as an ocean. For example, an amnesiatic in an asylum, who has hallucinations which reflect a past trauma or something. Or a garden from the point of view of a child, where the tiniest little event can expand into a mini game, but a meditative visual music game instead of a glitzy final fantasy arcade epilepsy game.

Alternatively, shooting zombies in the desert while wearing power armor, of course.

 

Democracy 3 hands on: losing elections with land mines in a complex politics sim


Is Democracy an RPG?

What is an RPG? COMMENCE INDECIPHERABLE RANT!!!

First I'll say what I must insist is decidedly NOT an RPG... Bioshock. I went YEARS without playing a game that wasn't compatible with my NES or first gen Xbox and when I finally got a computer I also purchased Bioshock. The idea that Bioshock is an RPG is pretty disgusting to me. The supposed issue of good vs. evil and the "choices" you make are completely binary - your fate is sealed the moment you make 1 evil decision, and it should be noted that there is no variance, you are literally given the exact same "good vs. evil" scenario every time. I'm sure most of you have played if but for those of you have not I need to stress that the scenario in which you determine the ending of the game is a repeated action you make about 100 times through the game, and it is an exact carbon copy of the same scenario every single time. The "rpg" elements serve only to aid in your progress through the world, and while I really enjoyed the game I have to say I felt like scavenging for items and backtracking to fight big daddies was redundant as HELL. During my first playthrough I put hours into increasing the effectiveness of my items just to make the game a small bit easier... It was incredibly frustrating.

If you want an example of a game that tries and fails to do open world on an indie budget I'd present you with ... S.P.A.Z. ... http://minmax-games.com/SpacePiratesAndZombies/
A complete failure of a game. I spent 40 hours playing it and made little meaningful progress. The story progressed about 5% as far as it should have during the time I put into it, and I was forced to grind by playing the same static missions over and over again. This could be an RPG, but instead its just a half assed, unfinished mess.

Meanwhile I cannot wait for Transistor to come out - the next game being developed by SuperGiant Games, the devs of Bastion. While Bastion is just another dungeon crawler, it succeeds by presenting itself with rock-solid thematic style, creative action, 0 inventory management, progressive attainment of 12 static weapons which can be improved through attaining items, these items are attained through combat-puzzle sidequests. I cannot say enough good things about it. It's just engaging, it looks nice, it sounds nice... But idk if its really an RPG the same way Arcanum and Elder Scrolls are...

Having said that, idk if I prefer the Elder Scrolls format to other styles of games. Every single Elder Scrolls game I played was more of a complete escape from reality that first hypnotized me and then repelled me. The first sign of a zit on my leg, or back and I'm done... No more trips back to town laden with loot and such, no more trying to walk straight up a mountain into a blizzard into a dungeon I'm not supposed to enter yet. It's over. Try playing Morrowind now... It's like wading through concrete.

This is where I'd talk about whether or not I was a fan of System Shock or Deus Ex, but I've never played those so whatever.

This is where I WILL say that when I played 2nd Edition AD&D and Vampire The Masquerade in high school, with dice and a big dry eraser grid map... That was probably the most exciting thing anyone could do with with a bunch of three ring binders and some dice.

But we're supposed to be talking about CRPG's here...

IDK, I think my ideal RPG is one that is fun start to finish because of an engaging storyline. It seems that the definition of "rpg computer game" takes on a lot of different sub-games all bundled up in one big mess of a game. Stats management, strategy, twitch reaction based first person combat, abstract puzzles... these are all part of the engaging salad of elements that makes a good RPG such a fun experience. You get a sense of adventure out of trying to prepare your character, and solving problems, whatever those problems are. To this day I have to admit that Final Fantasy 7, Chrono Trigger, and Wild Arms all blew my mind. So did Legend Of Zelda Link's Awakening (idk why i didn't enjoy ocarina of time, sue me). I enjoyed these games just as much as I've enjoyed Arcanum, and Fallout 2 (the only fallout I've put any time into, unfortunately). I have to say that I definitely prefer Baldur's Gate 2 to Fallout and Arcanum, but only the writing, combat, graphics, soundtrack, and voice acting... And even then its very close.

But here's the ultimate flaw with all of these games... In order to play a role you need to be able to make choices, and no matter what you do in any CRPG you're going to have predetermined outcomes. So you're not really making a choice, you're taking a survey. The choose your own adventure aspects of Fallout, Arcanum, Baldur's Gate, et al, are one of the biggest draws for me, but they are also sort of a development pitfall at the same time. Creating this aspect adds a huge load onto the game dev's budget requirements, and not a lot of people are into it. As the industry moves towards crowd funding I think the choose your own survey aspect of these games will fade into obscurity. This makes me a bit sad since it's kind of like predicting that croutons and tomatoes will never again be used in the caesar salad that is the crpg experience.

Having said that, I've also enjoyed a few (f)ATLUS games... Specifically Shining Force, and Ogre Battle March Of The Black Queen. Are these rpgs? IDK. OBMOTBQ definitely has a moral background forced upon you based upon your unit choices, which I thought was extremely flawed... Basically the only way to maintain a good alignment is to ALWAYS fight enemies using units which are a lower level than the enemy units... This is nearly impossible. Regardless, of this Final Fantasy Tactics for the PS1 was designed by some (f)ATLUS devs and that game is ALSO wonderful though it decidedly completely lacking in choice... In reality these games are as much about Role Playing as any Final Fantasy, what they are instead are thematic turn based strategy games with world exploration elements.



IDK MAN, I LIKE ALL OF THESE THINGS.

I also fucking love the newer rogue-like-like games that are coming out. Specifically FTL, and Don't Starve just give me massive boners every time I play them. The open ended gameplay gives these games the feel of an rpg while maintaining a rigid goal - there is 0 choice related to the outcome of the game, but how you play and strategize gives the feeling of gradually building towards specialization and mastery of skills while foregoing character points.





FUCK.


I guess the perfect RPG is just a well delivered sequence of events based around some loose ideas of story telling. In the end all these games are based on the precedent that the player is acting out the role of a character but... - some of us don't want to play a specific character and want to impose our own personality onto the story - some of us want that character to be on rails - some of us want that character to break down to a series of numbers that determine whether or not they will be successful in their quest - some of us think a real RPG's are digital choose your own adventure stories - some of us think real rpg's MUST have abstract brain teasing puzzles - people who play ATLUS games are fat losers who collect statuettes and watch tentacle porn.

TLDR

 

Baldurs Gate is better than Arcanum and Fallout 2?

BG has better music and graphics than Arcanum?

A better story?

No, sir. No. I dispute this, sir, I dispute it indeed.

Music? Possibly, but only if you insist on ordinary epic, fantasy music. Arcanum's sound track is more refined and original.

Graphics? From a technical standpoint, I couldn't begin to dispute this, it may be so. From an artistic point of view, however, Arcanum's illustrations are, again, more original and memorable.

Story? You must be jesting, sir. What was BGs story anyway? Pff, the factory standard plot, of course. Some destined orphan, some dark overlord. I honestly can't remember. Arcanum was the exact same plot as BG and every other fantasy rpg ever except it was artfully deconstructed. The gnome with his ring was just the first of many clever satires of the genre, and it results in a story that is always defying expectations.

Baldurs Gate is a highly professional adaptation of the much loved table top game, and for that reason alone it gets four stars, but for graphics, story and originality, Arcanum gets five stars. Best. RPG. Ever.

 

Re:

Look, when you compare "Once Upon A Time In The West" to "Wild Wild West" one is original, and one is epic... It's all in the execution.

I'm not saying Arcanum is anything but a great game but compared to BG2 its questing is a bit slower, the combat is shakier, the levelling requires quite a learning curve.

When it comes to the music... Arcanum's music is very good but the instrumentation is almost entirely string quartet, while BG2 has an orchestra complete with timpani, and horns, and some tracks have a largish sounding choir. Both formats are admirable, but if I had to choose one to listen to for hours on end I'd choose BG2 hands down.

I'd definitely give bg2 5/5 and also arcanum 5/5 with a warning that it is buggy and has an intense learning curve.

 

Fair points, except for me string quartets are the pinnacle of music.

 

I cannot believe I had forgotten about this build I had dreamt up!

The objective of the game is to bring concentration back to the practice of magic. It would play like a typical 3rd person brawler, except that every character is unarmed yet gifted in the magical arts. The character would control like a typical 3rd person camera-over-the-shoulder game with a left analog stick controlling locomotion and a right analog stick controlling the camera. Face buttons would execute the standard punch, kick, or block. However, hold a shoulder button down and the analog sticks no longer control locomotion, but each one controls the movements of a hand.

Does that sound boring? Good, that's the point. Each magical spell is executed by waving the character's hands in a specific pattern and/or depressing some buttons in a specific sequence. This is biomechanical micromanagement at its finest!

Experience points can be spent in the following ways: to bolster the effectiveness of a particular spell or to increase the tolerance of successfully casting one. Let's say a specific spell requires the player to wave his hand in an "S" formation. If he were to spend enough XP to increase the tolerance to maximum, he could eventually reduce that pattern to a diagonal ("/"). Then again, if another player practices the "S" sequence enough not to require any forgiveness when casting the same spell, he could spend his experience points to increase its potency, thereby rewarding practice over mindless grinding.

Cool. There you have it: a twitch-based arena fighter RPG.

That's not an RPG? Now one of the playable characters is a moogle. Screw off.