On the top of effect.mes the following text is found: Code: // WARNING: Each effect has a constraint of a maximum of *FIVE* changes per *type* of change // (so you could have 5 changes to stats *and* 5 changes to skills, but not 6 changes to stats) A bit further down, the entry for the "Miracle Operation" background is found as follows: Code: {352}{in +3, ch +3, pe +5, st -3, dx -3, cn -5} // miracle operation Now that is six changes to stats. The odd thing is, it appears to work. If I choose it for my background in Arcanum, I get six stat changes (the listed changes do take effect for the appropriate stats). Now, is this just a very pleasant bug or are the leading comments in the file in fact out of date or even inaccurate? What is the correct number of effects that can be applied?
I did more extensive research for my custom background mod, read here: http://www.terra-arcanum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14914&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
------------------------------------------------------ Q 1) Just thinking of it. The tutorial of 'Caster of Elements' for backgrounds says it can not handle more than 5 changes to skills and stats. However, mad doctor and miracle operation for starters have more than 5 stat changes... it must be possible right? A 1) The limitation is not true, though their seems to be some oddities I can not yet clarify. I made a short test giving a +1 bonus to all stats, and sure enough all were increased.... unfortunately it increased strength to maximum.... which is odd. I am unsure of the reason, but since you alway got to test if your background works I reckon you can play around to effect more than five stats. ----------------------------------------- Q 2) Has any tried to make like a 'Cursed' or 'Child' background and than a applying for instance the effect of the shrink spell to a human? Is the effect permanent, can disperse magic undo this? Is this a fun idea? A 2) You can not do this. Effects of spells do not work when used in a background. Or simply just giving the application of the spell. It is not implemented and works the same way as no significant background. Did not cause a CTD. So no worries or sorrows, no 'child' or 'cursed' (well not in this way) backgrounds. ----------------------------------------------- Q 3) In backgrnd.mes stands always one effect listed for a background... Has any ever tried to put two effects on that list? Hearing from rroyo now that there is a limit to effects, combining them might be nice to limit the needed amount of effects. A 3) This can not be done. Trying to apply two effects from the list, no matter what type of effect (so even ones that have no effect or cancel each other) causes an immediate CTD.
Q1 was pretty much what I had gathered so far. I have experienced some odd effects too, but can't remember the specifics though. Regarding Q2 I've always wondered how they did "Idiot Savant" (permanent imbecile dialog), Educator, etc. Can't seem to tie their effects to effects.mes, got to be hardcoded to their background IDs then no? Q3 was good to know though (if a bit disappointing).
That is a shame, we could have nailed problem... Only notable distinction is {352}{in +3, ch +3, pe +5, st -3, dx -3, cn -5} // miracle operation The values are equal and first three up and than three down This in contrast to regular highest modifier upfront, i.e. {179}{ST -6, IN +2, WP +2, PE +1}//shelterd childhood However, my own experciences showed this is not needed {359}{resistdamage +10, critfailchance +10, cn +3, in +2, dx -4} // Custom Background Clumsy Thus, I am unsure as to how to make it all work. I am unsure, but it seems likely. Neither effect.mes or backgrnd.mes has an indication on how this functions. Sorry, can't undo that of course
For those still interrested in this topic, I succeeded in making a custom background effecting more than 5 stats and with different effects to these stats. I will show more of it soon, as I am bringing out a version 2 of my Custom Background mod, after a request from a greater person.
I recall discovering a long while back when making my own backgrounds that you can have 5 +'s to stats and then 5 -'s to stats. Attributes and skills are separate. So you can have 5 changes to your ST, DX, BE, ect and then 5 changes to your firearms/melee/lockpicking/ect... It's been a long time though... but I am pretty sure that's how Miracle Operation works.
I am affraid that is not exactly how it works, as I copied the effect of miracle operation it changes 6 stats at once, not 5 stats, 5 skills, 5 stats (at least that is what I get from your post). As said in my previous post I have managed to break the 5 barrier. It has to do how you put it down.
Then I wasn't clear enough. Miracle operation has six changes to stats, but they can be broken down into three positive changes and three negative changes. What you can have is six positive changes and six negative changes, if I remember correctly. So you could have +2 ST, CN, DX, BE, and IN, as well as -2 WP, PE, and BE. A total of eight changes to stats. You could not have +2 ST, CN, DX, BE, IN, and WP though. I remember stumbling across this when fiddling around with the backgrounds and noticing what miracle operation did, just like you.
I would not cancel out beauty with each other, but yep it seems to work like that. Though only it fails to certain heights, +1 to all stats only caused a failure in the strenght stat. The rest functioned fine. So, it seems an odd error. I also still need to try a 3 stats bonus, 1 negative, 3 other stat bonuses to see if you can make it work like that.
Well, I don't remember +1's or +2's or anything like that having an effect. I know that if you have too many changes sometimes one particular stat will be reduced or increased a dramatic amount. Sometimes having too many changes me that nothing will happen (IE the background leaves the character stats unchanged). I don't have Arcanum installed anymore though so I can't test anything myself.
Well, it is like you said sometimes random things seem to happen. I had strength going wonkers, and the rest being fine. I tried more things, but it seems a bit random... I know that magical effects do not work as a background. I tried this myself. I hardly doubt we can make sense out of randomness.
I've come to the conclusion that if I can't make a background work properly, I just move some effects to Arbalah's Blessing. If you don't want the reaction bonus for your game, just remove it. It isn't elegant enough for release purposes of course, but it works for one game at a time.
