Left vs. Right

As requested, I'm starting this up, it's rather simple - I am the communist party - member and I stand on the far left side.

So, pick a side, debate on "why commnism is bad, or why capitalism sucks ass"

Let's get started- first thing out is law enforcement, I think that it must be a Citizens Militia, any arguments?

 

Your new sig threatens some sort of retaliation if I disagree, so I say;
Bring it.

Communism sucks because it only works in theory. Once real people are added to the equation, it falls apart and becomes a pseudo-communist oligarchy. If people were predictable, and complacent, then yes, it would work.
As for law enforcement being taken out and being replaced with a citizen's militia...it would become the same thing over a period of time. Not everyone would be in the militia, and so the militia would take on the same roles as a law enforcer.

 

Communism works, I have made up the most excellent economy - Rich ones pay 50% tax, workers pay only 8% tax (so there is a balance). Let's say that a rich one makes $80000 a month, he taxes 50% of that. 80000/2=40000. 25% of them taxed 40000 go to the state, and the other half to the poor, not the workers, the poor. Now, that's good because it would keep the balance in the community without make the rich ones angry.

 

It does NOT work in theory.

YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT

With your nice little plan you encourage:
- corruption
- blackleg work
- inefficiency (especially at every fucking state owned company)
- collective impoverishment

 

The fundamental problem with communism, as far as I can see it, is that it does not encourage individuals to excel at anything. There is no reason to do so as everything is distributed equally. If someone makes a great discovery after lots and lots of hard work, the only reward (immediate or eventual) is shared by everyone. Why do all that work when you can do jack shit and get the same handout (or "distribution") as the next guy? It's the innate sense of competition that drives civilization and economy, the human desire to achieve and be better than the next person. Capitalism harnesses that and makes for a foundation of a society.

People need motivation to do things. They don't operate on "ideas" and "philosophy," they operate with food on the table and goals to achieve.

 

Frigo, I took this from the MSN Encarta database;

In theory, communism would create a classless society of abundance and freedom, in which all people enjoy equal social and economic status. In practice, communist regimes have taken the form of coercive, authoritarian governments that cared little for the plight of the working class and sought above all else to preserve their own hold on power.

I.e. it works...in theory.
I just wanted to clear my name. I even saw something similar on Wikipedia.

Anyway, Bree, that economy is horrible. In a true communist economy, there would be no poor, and everyone would be a worker. Oh, and there'd be no deliniation between rich and poor because everyone would be the same.

 

classless society - No ruling class, no creative class, no underclass ? It'd very interesting to eradicate the ruling class, or to include the underclass in the state redistribution.

abundance - "Tragedy of the commons"

freedom - Like the freedom of prices, the freedom to start a new business, huh ?

all people enjoy equal social and economic status - If I'll get the same payment as the lowest street sweeper, that will surely motivate me to learn for 18 years, spend 10+ hours a day in front of my computer fucking up my spine and do programming, that requires constant attention and hard thinking. That's one less programmer and one more man working in some other, already crowded field. Supply and demand unmatched, the economy collapses.

So it's fucked up in theory too.

 

I'm not trying to defend communism in any way. I guess what I want to say is that it looks nice on paper if you don't think about it.

 

It doesn't. It requires complete brain death or copious amounts of alcohol (the methyl one) in order to somebody see it nice.

Of course, the average human is dumber than any of us, even if we try to drink methanol while braindead. (Bree, you are an average human.)

 

Ahh, the USSR falled because of stupid Gorbachev, his ideas were damn nice, but... he went to fast forward with them.

 

There have been enough nations wrecked by failed attempts at a working communist state.

 

Pff, nonsense, with my communist reforms that I've explained here, the communist society could work.

 

In my book, these guys are banned: Stalin and Pol Pot. They're fucking assholes, a disgrace to the communist ideology!

But, yeah, they thought the same, but communism was rather new then, and we have learned a lot since then about communism/socialism. Communism in the 21th century would be modern, good, hig-welfare, and other things.

 

Communism works in theory, contrary to anything Frigo might say, the biggest problem though, when trying it out in the real world is numbers.

Families can easily live in communist-like societies, smaller groups, like tribes in some other part of the world or crazy hippies can too. But that is because they actually care about each others. When the group becomes larger, it becomes harder for it to work, because people start caring about themselves or the people they know best more than they care about the group. A large group of crazy hippies who all really believe in communism could probably still make it work, but that is another fault with it.

How do you seriously think you are going to make people believe in your cause when you start a revolution? In countries where everybody already is communist, it might work, but having to kill people to get what you want will make the people who aren't really sure about it a lot more sceptical. Which is why socialism is the way to go if you want the communist/socialist society, slowly reforming means you don't kill (and put off) people.

Frigo, if you really hate getting an education, maybe you should try not getting it. I doubt everybody feels the same way. I know I'd gladly be a professor or programmer or something like it, even if it meant studying for 10 years longer (what's so bad about studying) and destroying my back in ways the construction worker couldn't dream about. Though your idea does have a point, what about the less popular jobs? Driving a garbage truck, cleaning and wiping old peoples asses, who'd want them?

Van, I think you kind of missed the main point of communism: workers owning stuff, there'd be no "rich", either they'd become worker or dead. Which is why your "communist reforms" are worthless, they might be good ideas (they're not, really) but they're not communist.

Edit: sorry for not getting that you are a troll right away, "communist reforms" :lol: .

Good job making me write down my thoughts so I have something to look back on when I'm older though.

 

Communism works, in both theory and real life. With succesful reforms such as land reforms. The taxing policy that I mentioned works too. But now you will probably ask "what are you going to do with the other half of the taxed money when the poor aren't poor anymore?". Well, the answer is simple - give the money to the third world. That gives my communist society popularity throughout the world too, not to mention the support I will gain in Africa.

And you all must remember that everyone in a communist society aren't workers, there will be a few rich ones to, but as I said, they will be taxed heavily.

Then I will introduce the new reform "communism in one country" that means that the workers will produce almost everything inside the country.

 

Everyone's talking, and nobody's listening.