Building a sequel-like mod for Arcanum...

Here's an idea I had based on using the existing game for a minor sequel to the first game....which might act as more of a minor epilogue set in the future...allowing the player to see the futureof arcanum after the end of the original game, depending on how things went:

You'll have to forgive the spelling cos I wrote thie pretty fast:

Okay so we all want a sequel, but perhaps its not as hard as we think, provided the already discussed principle of basing it on the same land and map, and only making the changes so as to reflect the “evolution” or “passage of time”.

The main problem with this approach trough is that depending on the different “endings” from the main game or even the after-effects of the side-quests create a multitude of possibilities within the game.

Now while in theory a “loader” could be made where the user can “check-off” certain things that happened or did no happen…based on how his preferred Arcanum 1 game ended…the Arcanum 2 map would have to be altered according to the choices or at least de modular enough so that only the respective areas are shown in their respective way.

As to the time frame, its gonna depend really, I mean depending on who your character was in the original game, 50 years means enough time for one or two generation if you’re human, Orcish, Ogrish or even Halfling…but barely a wrinkle for an Elf or Dwarf. So possibly this would have to take place maybe 200 years later for a significant time frame. Alternatively, it could just take place 30 years or later regardless of what race you pick provided you don’t have it so that you’re in some way related to your character from the original game.

Just looking at the quests which affect the ending we can sort of make a few speculations:

Tarant
· Boil rebuild anew, once Pollock and Maug were dead. Bentley renovated and becomes most elegant hotel in Tarant. The owner Caleb Malloy is often found mixing drinks in the hotel bar.
In keeping with a “good ending” basically this would mean overahauling the boil and makimng it look like a prosperous hotel and diginified place. This could possibly mean having the Inn in Tarant harbor some ill-will towards Malloy or his descendants, setting up a possible quest.


· Boil rebuild anew, once Pollock and Maug were dead. Bentley renovated and becomes most elegant hotel in Tarant.
Same as above. Returning the case of whiskey is too small a thing.


· Donn Throgg – because of advice given to him, he becomes a champion of equal rights and justice and changes labor rules for the good of all.
In keeping with a “good ending” Orc slave labour is finished and the facory either has automatons or a mixtures of races working or is just plained closed down.

· After the death of Gilbert Bates, the Bates Steam Engine Company closes it doors. Cedric Appleby attempted to meet the demand with inferior machines. Tarant is thrown into utter chaos.
This would be a “bad ending” scenario, but not an end of the world scenario. We’ll discuss that later.

· After the deaths of Gilbert Bates and Cedric Appleby, both companies shut down and Tarant was without a steady supply of steam engines. Eventually the sewer system and electricity systems shut down. Tarant is thrown into utter chaos.
This would be a “bad ending” scenario, but not an end of the world scenario. We’ll discuss that later.

· Because of the death of Darian Maug, Pollock sets his eyes on the rest of Tarant and it wasn’t long before all of Tarant was shadowy and crime ridden.
This would be a “bad ending” scenario, but not an end of the world scenario. We’ll discuss that later.

· Because of the death of Pollock, Darian Maug sets his eyes on the rest of Tarant and it wasn’t long before all of Tarant was shadowy and crime ridden.
This would be a “bad ending” scenario, but not an end of the world scenario. We’ll discuss that later.


For Tarant its basically gonna be a spanking new town full enhancements and good things or in a bad case scenario, a town that is completely chaotic.

Good ending:
- Tarant thrives, Gilbert Bates makes a heap of money.

- The town is expanded a little, the sewers being cleared of most things save for rats; New subway stations are built, allowing for easier movement within the town.

- HT Parnell’s collection of items expands, including the “robes of Kerghan” (just a tattered robe really), and maybe a few of the items of the Void Exiles and his places becomes the Museum of Tarant. Gar makes peace with his former owner, and becomes Parnell’s partner.

- The shops on the streets no longer carry old or rusty items and now sell some rather premium things. Junk shops still exists near the wharf, but the ones in the boil and the factory are likely to be gone.

- Most of the warehouse district is changed, looking sleeker and Poone’s flophouse no longer operates; The Thieves Underground now operates from a building in the noble area of Tarant, being somewhat more discrete. The remaining buildings that aren’t actually warehouses get upgraded to look classier.
Bad ending:
- The negotiations with Caladon failed and Tarant was attacked by the reconstructed airships and many perished.

- With bates humiliated and Killed, along with Rival Cedric Appleby, Tarant could no longer sustain its factories and its sewer and electric systems were shut down. Chaos took over the town, allowing criminals to rise and new crimelord to take over the city.

- the boil has more criminals operating, and more dangerous one. Pollock and Maug both ended up being overthrown by a new crimelord who has moved into the near impregnable Bates Mansion.

- Tolls are charged by criminal elements for entry into Tarant by foot. Neither the Subways or the Train operate any longer and Ships charge 4 times the usual amount to ferry passengers.

- Shopkeepers have been forced either underground or remain above ground charging ridiculously high prices. Some citizens have set up rudimentary homes in the sewers.

- Most of the homes have been vacated, with few remnants of their former owners, now inhabited by the worst criminal elements imaginable.

- The Main quest ends up being destroying the new crime boss of Tarant which ends up being somewhat of a surprise. Pretty much a “hack and slash” without much else to quest for.
Now as far as the side quests go..a few minor things can be done for either scenario:
o Deliver Payment Notice to Mrs. Halster
§ Good: She opens up a jewel shop wit the money where she pays 1.5 x as much for certain gems at certain times of day.
§ Bad: Had no money to buy a boat leaving Tarant. Killed by criminals. Buried in cemetery: (Here lies Regina Halster, who never god paid, now to the ground she is laid).

o Rid Mr. Plough's Warehouses of Rats
§ Good: Becomes the premiere warehouse in Tarant, housing some of the best inventions.
§ Bad: Becomes filled with wererats created by kidnapped citizens being held hostage there. Buried in cemetery. (Mr. Plough, that’s his name, and now he’s dead old Mr. Plough).

o Retrieve Matthew's Wedding Ring
§ Good:Mathews and his wife had three children, who took over the dress and clothing shop in Tarant.
§ Bad: Mathews remains are found in the sewers with a note saying his wife never forgave him. Ring can be found on a criminal. Empty grave in cemetery. (Here lies Matthew, loving husband and a forgetfull thing. Lost his life looking for a silly ring.)
§
o Find the Stolen Painting
§ Good: The painting is displayed in the museum of Tarant (new location).
§ Painting found in the Crime Boss’ Private Collection.

o Wilhemina and Jared
§ Good: Jared and Wilhemena are bruied side by side in the Tarant cemetery.
§ Bad: Jared spends the rest of his days searching for his wife and can be found near the old Crash Site, old and ragged and rambling like he was crazy.

o The Crystal Ball
§ Good:Madam Toussade moves to the richer part of town, taking over Dolores’ house.
§ Badolores becomes one of the most powerful magic users in Tarant, to the point where even the criminals give her a wide berth. Madam Toussade is buried in the cemetery. (Here lies Madam Toussade, for a woman who could see the future, she should have seen this coming.)

o Work for Madam Lil
§ Good: Each of the original hookers opens up their private single-service brothel. Madam Lil gets a whole new batch of girls.
§ Bad: Without the services you could have performed, Madam Lil had no political power in Tarant and was driven out of business. She and the girls became slaves to the Crime Boss of Tarant.

o End the Orc Uprising
§ Already addressed.

o Steal the Elven Funerary Stone
§ Good: The stone ends up in HT Parnells
§ Bad: The Stone ends up in the Crime Boss place. Mrs. Pettibone is killed and buried in the cemetery. (Here lies Cassandra Pettibone, now she has a funeral stone she can call her own).

o Caleb Malloy's Whiskey
§ Good: Already addressed.
§ Bad: Still working at the Boil, and is more misetable than ever.

o The Boil - Pollock's Gang
§ Already addressed
o The Boil - Damian Maug's Gang
§ Already addressed
o The Boil - Help Sebastian
§ Already addressed

o Thieves Underground
§ Good: They operate from a noble section of town, running more high profile cons, scams and blackmails and petty thefts.
§ Bad: They continue to operate as they did, only requesting things from other towns. Talking to the leaders shows that they aren’t too happy about the way things are being handled in Tarant.

o Steal the Golden Idol of Kree
§ Good: Kree becomes a historical landmark, visited by tourists all the time. The idol is eventually returned.

§ Bad: The theft of the idol incensed the gods who protect the Kree and sent plagues which ruined much of Tarant’s agricultural business.

o Negotiations with Caladon
§ Good: Both Tarant and Caladon flourished and became powerful allies.
§ Bad:Tarant was attacked by Caladon and badly ravaged.

Ashbury

Good Ending:
· The success of the monument inspired the citizens of Ashbury to make their town to grow and expand. Malachi’s castle was cleared of its undead and is now the office of the Mayor and ruling council.

· Phinneas Magee cajoled his way into becoming a member of the council.

· Theo Brightstart became a successful farmer and sells crops at cost to would be travelers.

· Geoffrey Tallorand Ashe also joined the ruling council, but many are wary of his motivations.

· Theodore became Ashbury’s premiere technologist, with his power armor becoming the “standard” apparel of the the Ashbury Military and guard.
Bad Ending:
· With nothing to unify the town and unite the people, Ashbury quickly fell victim to the manipulations of Geoffery Tallerond Ashe who took the town for everything they had, before leaving for Tulla and leaving Ashbury to the mercy to Malachi Rench and his undead minons.
· The town is now overrun by zombies, gore gaurds, ghouls, mummys, and fearsome undead.

· Rench’s castle is now more heavily fortified with Dark Paladins and Bludgenoers as his closest gaurds.

Dernholm
Good ending:
· Dernoholm regains its glory with the heelp of Maximillian and Cumbria grew into a powerful nations. The entire town was rebuilt, the shanty shacks replaced by stunning houses and new shops that have become a standard in the Arcanum.

· Lianna Del Par became the captain of the Dernholm guard and the fiercest fighter in Cumbria. She married expert archer and former guard, Dudley Crosston who is her second in command.

· Gladys and Archibald got married and opened up a tiny jewelery shop where her old house used to be.

· Relations with Black Root remained firm, now connected by railway.
Bad Ending:

· Cumbria falls into decay under leadership of King Praetor who is later killed by Liana Del Par in an attempt to overthrow him. Liana is executed for treason.
· After the death of King Praetor, Derholm crumbles into obscurity and the rest of Cumbria is swallowed by the United Kingdom. And became a haven for criminals and refugees, with the pit being used to trap innoncent people with fierce beasts for entertainment.
· A group of rogue Panarii tried to resurrect the dead king but only succeeded in turning him to a powerful lich who now rules the walls of Dernholm Castle with hoards of undead.
Shrouded Hills

Good Ending:
· Jongle Dunn successfully creates successful process to turn gold from lead. He becomes the richest man in Arcanum and settles in a new citty, creating a magnificent mansion and laboratory. Every year, students flock there to learn the mysterious way of alchemy from Jongle.
· Because of the defeat of Lukan and his henchmen, together with the freeing of the ghost of Bessie Toone; shrouded hills becomes a bustling boom town. Doc Roberts becomes new sheriff and is aided by his deputy and right hand man, Sogg Mead Mug.
· Lloyd became a successful smith, using the pure ore found to make some of the finest weapons in the region, rivaling the blades of Stillwater.

· Gaylin returned to Quintarra to study healing with Master Fawn, entrusting her shop and business to Jayna Stiles who settled down as Shoruded Hills newest Herbalist and Healer.

Bad Ending:
· Because of your mindless destruction of the bridge materials, Lukan continued to control the only route in or out. After extracting every last coin from the town, he made his way to Tarant and joined their crime sindicate.
· The presence of the ghost of Bessie Toone, prevented the mine from producing quality ore.
· With the gold stolen from the bank, Jacob Bens and Percival Toone go into business together in Tarant, becoming integral parts of the criminal activities theirin.
· Shrouded Hills withers away in a ghost town, literally, only the spirits of its former residents still around.

Caladon
Good ending:
· Outstanding performance in negotiations between Caladon and Tarant, together with the wise policies of Donn Throgg – Caladon and Tarant become equally prosperous.
· Caladon develops railway, connecting itself to Roseborugh, Black Root, Tarant, Ashbury and Dernholm. They also develop a subway system, allowing faster travel within the new and improved town which now boasts a brand new commercial and industrial area, housing the amazing factories and inventions of one Hieronymous Maxim.

· Alexander brings the deception of the Dark Elves on the Panarii to light, and becomes new high priest Aided often by “reformed” acolyte, Virgil.

· Ryan Sander’s father joins the ruling council, lamenting his son’s incarceration in the Caladon prison.


· The thieves underground operates in the high class sector, concentrating more on political espionage and information trading than petty theft.

· David Wit sits on the Caladon ruling council and becomes one of the King’s most trusted advisors. His Daughter Cynthia, now cured, became a caretaker at the Caladon zoo.

· Lillian Misk took advantage of her wealth and opened up a Library in Caladon which is sought by many for their extensive information on the Dark Elves. She is aided by he two children, twins, born not long after the Vendigroth was destroyed. The children’s father is unknown.

· The solution of the Whychurch murders brought much joy to the town and led to a complete overhaul of the city sewers.


Bad Ending:
· Mediocre performance in negotiations between Caladon and Tarant – Hieronymous Maxim builds fleet of warships, Caladon wins war.
· Caladon becomes a town ruled by martial law with a strict curfew in place, and guards ordered to execute anyone seen wandering the streets at night.

· The Panarii, still under the illusions planted by the Dark Elves exert heavy influence on the kingdom, conduction “inquisition” within the confines of their massive church. Two of their inquisitors are a pair of skeptical Halflings.

· The Thieves Underground has been completely eradicated by the Caladon security forces.

· Ryan Sanders sits on the Caladon Council, using his fathers “unfortunate demise” to sway the king into conceding him the spot.

· Cynthia Wit was never healed and captured by the Panarrii in Caladon for being a “freak” and has never been heard from since.

· Hieronymous Maxim sits on the ruling council, but is considered somewhat of a heretic by the panarii.

· Lillian Misk was arrested and detained due to her late husbands works on the Dark Elves being considered heresy. She was pregnantwith twin children when she was captures, and died giving birth. The Children were raised within the confines of the panarii temple as acolytes. The boys is more of a radical acolyte, while the daughter is more pensive and deliberate. Nobody knows who the father is.

· The Panarrii reached a dark pact with the demon behind the Whytechurch murders and is used by the church to punish and kill their more powerful adversaries.

Quintarra

Good Ending:
· Quintarra prospered, under the leadership of the Silver lady. The town grew in size and developed more powerful magics.

· Raven continued as Quintarra’s main protector, and mysteriously gave birth to a young son named Koval, who’s appearance while even, hides foreign triats which give him a “unique” view of the world.

· Whysper’s studies on the Volar’s Wisp helped improve the magic in Quintarra, allowing the elven smiths to create many powerful items. She now sells rare items in the tree-top-village.

· Jormund returned to Quintarra, seeking to learn more magic from the elves and became a respected practioner, going so far as to become an instructor for many aspiring elves.

· Ellumyn developed many armors from Mithril ore, making the Quintaran guards even more fearsome.

· Swyft returned from Tarant, having gained new appreciation for technology and other races, and would eventually become Quintarra’s ambassador to other races.

· Mr. Winde and his student would go on to train many aspiring archers drawing the attention of one Kietzel Pierce.
Bad Ending:
· The Dark Elves of Tsen Ang amassed their forces and invaded Quintarra, leading to a bloody battle that killed hundreds from each side. Quintarra was eventually overwhelmed, with M’in Gorad taking the heads of both the silver Lady and Raven as her prized possessions, while Raven’s son Koval was raised by her and her Dark Elven ways.

· Quintarra is now overseen by Zan Allurin, who secretly vies for Min Gorads seat of power among the Dark Elves, courting Koval in an attempt to gain his favor over his “mother”.


Stillwater

Good Ending:
· Stillwater grew into a popular mountain town, drawing visitors from all over Arcanum.
· Richard Leeks continued to create magical blades that are sought after by many. Cyrus works with him, and set up his own magic shop. Together, they forged their first new magical weapon, and axe named Droggs Demise.
· The return of the idol kept the faith of the Stillwater citizens and several women were found to have become pregnant after the return of the idol. These children grew up to become “chosen acolytes” and are highly regarded by the townfolk.
·
· Gildo Nightwalk, discovered several powerful secrets withing the Great Ruby and used them to grow in power. He disappeared recently and hasn’t been heard from since.
·
Bad Ending:
· Every citizen in Stillwater was killed because of the dark pact with Min Gorad. The town is now inhabited by wild animals who have taken refuge there. Rumours say they are protected by the Stillwater Giant.

Roseborough
Good ending:
· Roseborough continued to be a quite place of harmony and getaway.

· Lady Druella and Adkin Chambers married and settled down and raised a family.

· Arronax visits the Ring of Brogdar every year to grant favors to a select few.

Bad ending:
· Roseborough was devastated through the magical backlash from the void, becoming a haven for more invading denizens from The Void.
·
Black Root

Good ending:
· Because you convinced the mayor of Black root to rejoin Cumbria, there is a small struggle between Maximillian and the Industrial Council. Maximillian wins and Black root becomes one of the most important ports in all of Arcanum.
· Liam Cameron’s journal was sent to Tarant for study and his mother received a posthumus award from scientific research.

· Daniel Hallways Inn grew into one of the finest establishments n Cumbria.

· A naked Halfing now owns a small casino in town.
Bad ending:

· By failing to convince the mayor to rejoin Cumbria, its fate is sealed with the rest of Cumbria. As with the rest of Cumbria, Black Root decayed until it became just another almost deserted settlement.
· Daniel Hallawy’s refusal to pay for his strongbox led Garret Almstead to kill on the innkeeper and try to run both business. He failed miserably and let the Inn waste away into a rat infested dive, while his smithy went bankrupt.

· The portal Liam Cameron discovered was never sealed and part of Blackroot was overrun by denizens from the Void, who continue to advance over the rest of Arcanum.

· A naked Halfling offers protection from the void creatures, for a price.
Wheel Clan

Good Ending:

· Under the continued leadership of Loghaire Thunderstone, the wheel clan rejoins the world. Loghaire lives a long life. He gathers the remnants of the Black Mountain and Stonecutter clans and helps rebuild them into thriving dwarven kingdoms along with the reformed Iron clan led by Magnus Shalefist.



· The Dredge, now cleared of monsters, allowed Arvid Millstone and his miners to fully explore the underground, laying the groundwork for what would become an underground rail system that now connects all four dwarven clans. The project was inspired by Vergard Moltenflows fascination with trains.

· Thorvald, having returned to his Clan, became an important member and leader within the clan.




Bad Ending:

· Loghaire Thunderstone never returned and eventually died and his son assumed leadership. The dwarven clan splintered and warred amongst themselves. The death of his son Randaver was another blow. and a bloody war followed. In time the conflict was resolved but the dwarven clan was never the same again. Most of their halls being invaded by fire demons and hideous creatures and hosts of corrupt Dark Elves.


Bedokken Village
Good Ending:
· The leader of the Bedokken joined with the elves and rid the glimmering forest and dark fens of poachers and the spoilers of the land. In time the Bedokken became civilised and shared in the wonders of the new age.
Bad Ending:
· The Bedokkan were slaughtered by poachers and their hides used to make some of the most expensive clothing in Arcanum. Rumour speak of a very minute colony, relocating to the Isle of Despair.

Isle of Despair
Good Ending:
· Cynthia Boggs, after escaping with her benefactor to Ashbury, settled in that town and took up a new identity, selling fine clothing and wares.

· Norian eventually escaped and opened up a second bar in Ashbury, his Potato Moonshine becoming the most popular beverage.

· Jones the Collector also escaped the isle, and opened up a pawn shop in Ashbury.

· With the destruction of the sorcerous beast and the departure of Thorvald, the prison colony was shut down, its residents being transferred to either Ashburyor Caladon. Ogden took up a position in Ashbury as a Prison Guard.

· The Women from the Women’s camp took up residence in the old prison and are said to have become great warriors, offering expert training in combat for a fee.

Bad Ending:
· Between Caladon’s militaristic attitude and Tarant’s overflowing with crime, the prison became overrun with criminals who eventually rebelled, taking over the entire facility. Cynthia Boggs was raped several times and tortured, until her screams in the night drew pity from the Women in the Women’s camp who mounted a rescue attempt. They succeeded but lost almost every member in their rank. Cynthia can be found wandering the outskirts of Shades Beach talking incoherently.

· The Prison and surrounding area became a dangerous place like the boil, but where certain hard to find items may be obtained.

· Some prisoners are worried about sightings of lizard-like humanoids living in the wilds of the north end of the island.
Returning To Arcanum

Good Ending:

· On return to Arcanum, Arronax buried his father and then travelled to the Vendigroth Wastes and raised the city from the ruins. Vendigroth again became a place of awe and wonder.

· On returning to Arcanum, you are revered as a hero. As years go by, your name becomes almost mythical. Your feats usher in a golden age where both Magick and Technology are accepted and used to make a better world. Your life and virtues are used as an example for others. Arcanum enters an enlightened age.

Bad Ending:
· The Bane Of Kree, returned to Arcanum, wielding Kryggird’s Falchion and laid siege to Caladon and Tarant. Eventually he was defeated, you were held responsible.
· On returning to Arcanum, Kerghan takes the role as a Dark God with arcane forms of worship and sacrifice. The world you made was a hard place. Having joined with Kerghan you are worshipped but you are also hated and feared.


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Its such an outline for things that could be done for either premise.

 

Holy crap you must have put a lot of time into this. Even though every other "Arcanum 2" mod in the past has either been scrapped or "mysteriously" dissapeared, I hope this gets made.

 

Wow, that is really comprehensive. For all the people who talk about Arcanum 2 mods, none of them have more than a scrap of an idea here and one there. It's definitely well-thought out here.

I'll read it over in greater detail and share my comments. Whether or not this becomes a mod, it will still be an interesting topic of conversation.

 

I appreciate the feedbacl fellas

Like I said, the idea would be to just take the base game and make changes on whats already there based off the premise that you got a Good Ending or a Bad ending out of the original game.

Obviously it wouldn't have to be integrated within the game...though it would be nice...it just ends up being a very big "supermod" which you play with a new character just so you can see what both worlds turned up like.

I used some of the descriptions that already existed for the end of the first game based on the "key quests" and built upon them as necessary.

Every quest from the original would have to be scrapped of course and one could have quests in the mod....although the one based off the "bad ending" would really be a hack and slash just for the fun of it and XP would have be earned "by fist".

The "good ending" one could have a few quests...but like I said, the idea at first isn't to make anything like a second game...only a massive-ass epilogue taking the storyline hooks from what could have been done in the first game.

If anyone could tell me how I could save a copy of the base game as a module (different name) and access it in WorldEd, I'd be willing to take a shot at illustrating some of these changes.

PS. Yeah..it took a bit of work..3 days actuyally...during my free time at work!

 

If you want to start your new Arcanum mod off the existing one, you can copy arcanum.dat in the Arcanum/modules folder, and then rename your copy. Keep in mind that if you are using WorldEd 1070 (which you should), you'll want to use datbuilder to undat this file after you've copied and pasted it. Note that it's pretty big when you turn it back into a folder.

If you are creating a stand-alone mod instead of an expansion, how would you decide which endings (because there are probably tens of thousands of combinations) are the ones you base your mod on?

I guess you could start the game with a dialog, where someone talks about what happened in recent history. It would sound like he was telling you, but it would really ask you to input information. Harvest Moon and Zelda might be good examples of this, although they're very transparent: at the beginning of some of them, the old man showing you around 'forgets' what your name/ others names' are, and you have to 'remind' him, etc. For example:
NPC: Did you hear about the bridge out of SH? there were some bandits charging an exorbitant fee just to use the bridge. I think Constable Owens said he'd take care of them. ...I can't remember if he ever got around to it. Did you hear anything about that?
PC: I heard they were driven out of town by an adventurer
PC: I heard that they were killed by Doc Roberts
PC: I heard that they continued to prey on the town until it dried up
PC: I heard that they suddenly left in the middle of the night

Etc. Of course, you'd use it for something more important.

There are a few problems with this, and with any other way you might look at the problem. First, it will take forever for the PC to enter all relevant data, unless you just choose a few different groupings of possibilities, and somehow get the PC to choose one of them. Next, it's going to be complicated just to put all the different combinations of dialog and on/off NPCs, not to mention that it's hard enough to make a complete NPC dialog as it is. Finally, no matter what you do, there's no getting around the fact that the environment, such as tiles, walls and roofs, is going to be the same regardless. However, you can have 2 copies of the world map, one destroyed and one not, and teleport the PC to one or the other at the very beginning.

 

Yeah that would pretty much be the basic idea...as to deciding between the multitide of endings, Im pretty much going for the "two extreme"....one where "everything was done right" and one where everything was done wrong....

Since I'd be going more for the "epilogue" feel initially, many of the dialons would be simple replies of "good morning" and things like that, whereas the "what do you knows" would work like you suggested.

I'd keep quest triggering dialogue to a bare minimum at first...and try to convey the past events through scenery and examinable items.

 

Luckily, a lot of the generic scripts can be re-used, like the guard, citizen, pub patron, dock worker, shopkeeper, etc.

 

One thing you should check out before starting this project is how long it takes for a mod the size of Arcanum to load.

There was a thread a while back about Arcanum being playable as a mod and one of the comments was that it took about 20 minutes to load.

http://terra-arcanum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11960

You might need to build this kind of like an expansion mod - overwrites the main game - to avoid that.

 

Hmmm....makes sense...but the amount of redundant data would be quite unbeliavble..and I'm not sure if arcanum supports triggered scenery changes...

...Like...you perform an action and all of a suden a building appears or changes.

I know there's something that for Half Ogre Island where if you go afterwards the place is emply, but that ws with actual objects and not walls and floors...

Any ideas?

And 20 minutes isn't too bad....well actually it is...but maybe the loadingtime would be reduced since the "mod" would have a lot less things in it because a lot of the stuff would be cleaned up...or maybe not...

 

Up to a point it can. Scenery and NPCs can be set to toggle on and off with flag settings, but not terrain, facades, or buildings.

It would be possible to set up a scene where you meet - say John Smith in Tarant on such and such date and a year later (game time) you return to find someone new with different furniture in the building. You just can't return to find a new building there.

Probably not. The main map is still one big SOB at 2000 X 2000 sectors. It would take a while for just that to load, and then there's the added weight of all the bitmaps used for the various townmaps.

 

Good point rroyo..."alternatively"...each town could be done separately, each as its own map....and you only navigate from map to map.....

i.e. no leaving town on foot...or ground travel. You either take a boat or a train from town to town.

This could fit the "epilogue" idea...I'd have to add trains and transport to places like Stillwater and Shoruded HIlls and to at least one of the dwarven clans....but I suppose its plausible.

Teleport would have to be disabled as there would be no world map, per se.

Any thoughts?

 

Your idea has possibilities - especially if you go with the lawless world theme. Perhaps a comment early in the game about the cities all being heavily defended against the hoards of scoff-laws that make solo travel too dangerous to risk.

That would provide a good explaination for not being able to travel overland. Add a re-generating near-invincible band of of murderous thugs just outside of town for those who absolutely want to try to walk out....

Yeah, I can see this working.

 

Rroyo...hmm...or I could just build walls around the towns that surround them completely.

This would be easy enough with Tarant and Caladon...but some of the others ight be a bit tricky..but then again for places like Shrouded Hills, Ashbury, Dernholm, Black Root, I would just widen the waterways so as to make overland impossible.

There'd be no problem with the Dwarven clans at all and with Stillwater I could just surround the place with the mountains.

Quintarra would be tricky though...cos it has trees...but I could use that to surround it and then just figure out some kooky way to get there.

But is it possible to "cut and paste" and entire town map onto a blank one?

And while I'm at it...couldn't I just completely modify the main game instead of making a "mod", and then just host that (yeah in like 2 years )

 

That would work too!

A while back you were mentioning a pirate den add-on, and suggested the means of using a discussion with a character for access to the pirates' island. Maybe?

You can't do that with the towns and such from the main map but places like the dwarf clans, Qintarra, T'sen Ang are all on smaller, separate maps and can easily be copied into your mod. All the main map locations would have to be recreated.

Yep! It would be a scaled-up version of what I'm doing. Yours would be set in the future instead of adding on to the present which would mean reworking the towns to meet your vision, renaming a few thousand things, and replacing an equal number of scripts to make this future world work.

And two years goes by faster than you may realize when you're working on something you enjoy.

 

First, Arcanum already is a mod, hence Xz's sarcastic comment.

I believe 20 minutes indicates the time it takes to load in WorldEd. However, temporarily removing the very large files like slides, sound, the worldmap and townmaps folders, etc. cuts the time down to only a few minutes, including both loading the mod and opening the main map.

While I can't rule out the possibility that Troika built the towns separately and assembled them with their own utility, which has never been released, it's more likely that everything on the world map was added to the world map directly, piece by piece. It's also not currently possible to copy any sectors or objects, unless you're pasting them onto another map in exactly the same x,y coordinates on exactly the same sector number.

It is not possible to loop for walls, tiles or floors, or to attach scripts to them. Therefore, there's no way to trigger them on or off.

Triggering NPCs on and off is easy, whether from a heartbeat/first heartbeat script, or by looping for them with another script attached to a critter/NPC.
I don't know if you have been successful with this, but I haven't been able to loop for and toggle on a scenery object (by using loop for every scenery in vicinity), although my last attempt was when I was less experienced than I am now. Scenery can easily be turned off with this method, however.

While using WorldEd, it takes a couple minutes to load sometimes, but there are no major issues once it has loaded. As for playing the actual mod, it shouldn't take any longer than when you play the official Arcanum mod.

You don't even have to do that. When you make changes to the main map, you can just copy the sectors you're changing (if copying each individual object is too tedious). Worst case scenario, you forget which sectors you've changed on the main map and you have to include the whole map in your mod, which you will distribute as either a .dat file or .patch? file. You can still have the world map, provided that you make your changes to the same version of that map. In fact, making a new version of each town would be 100x more tedious, because you'd have to create it from scratch, or copy and paste the existing town into a fresh map that is up to 2000x2000 sectors, or less (but still significant) the closer you get to Vendigroth).

 

How do you do this?

 

Copying a .sec or .mob file:

Save a map (or open it without having made any changes.) Wait at least one minute since your last save. Move something that's well inside the bounds of the sector you want, or open the menu for an object, and change something then change it back. Anything to make the "save" button in the upper left appear. Then, look in the module folder. Open the maps folder, then the folder named after the map you want. Using windows explorer, right click and select view > details. Also, right click and select Arrange Icons By > Modified. For convenience's sake, click the tab in the interface right above the list of icons that says "Date Modified" until the most recent appears at the top. (I have Windows XP, so this might be different for you.)

Look for the .sec file, the only one that should be more recent than the other .sec files. This is the file for the sector you want, and its name is the sector number. This file contains your sector data, like blocking tiles, tile scripts, and any data attached to the sector itself, but not the actual objects in the sector. For ease of finding the .sec file, you can also sort by file type, and click the type tab above the files, then just read the modified tiles for the various .sec files. I imagine that the latter method would take far too long with a big map, however, but is quicker with a very small map.

The actual objects will be the .mob files, which should also be recently modified and appear near the .sec file in your map folder. Note that you can also easily find a .mob file by right clicking on most objects, and selecting the bottom field on the menu, which automatically copies the file name to your clipboard. Then, just go to the right map folder - you don't have to use the save trick above or anything - and search for the file name. There should be only one.

Once you have the .sec or .mob files you want, you can put them in a .dat or .patch? file in the exact same directory (as you normally would with a .mes file). This will be loaded over the existing module if it's a .patch? file, or if you put it in the correct directory in Arcanum/data/maps/<map>/. You can also copy and paste it into a module folder and overwrite an older version of the exact same file (must have the same name, i.e. must not have been previously deleted and recreated from scratch).
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While you don't need to know this sector number from the start, note that sector numbers start at 0 in the far upper left (around the tile with the coordinates 1,1) and increase numerically up the Y axis (in coordinates, y is down, right? You can always move your cursor around the map and look at the values on the left below the minimap to orient yourself as to the axes). Once the far bottom right sector is numbered, the numbering starts in the column just to the left, and then continues down again.

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If I remember correctly, you just include the whole map you're changing in A:WIP. As going through this whole process is tedious for a very large number of changes, I think this is the right idea. I know doing it for Dusty Dunes was a pain, for sure.

 

Hey, thanks! I had sort of figured out how Drog knew which mob files to include, but had no idea about the rest.

I'm printing this out for reference.

Yep, I'll stick with the full maps. I make too many changes too many times to be sorting through the files every five minutes.

 

Yeah, same here - Drog was the first person I knew who used .mob files. At first I disagreed with him about this, because comparing two .mob files in hex to look at the changes is more difficult and time-consuming than looking at a list of flag changes in a map.patch file like arcanum.patch0, and who wants to track down all the .mob files and make sure that no extras got thrown in, but I eventually realized that he was definitely right ti use them.

I figured out how to add .sec files because I wanted to add blocking tiles for Dusty Dunes. Before my patch, you could run through just about every single piece of scenery bigger than a tile. Since Drog has added blocking tiles as well, and probably tile scripts (as he fixed the Bates/Loghaire encounter, which was originally designed to trigger with tile scripts), I assume that he uses a similar method.

Definitely. For all the work it takes to hunt for multiple .sec and .mob files, if you change one you have to remember to add it all over again.

For the Arcanum 2 suggestion, the best method would be to make 2 maps, where NPCs/ script attachments are deleted from most of them in one, and almost all the environments are destroyed in the other. That's what I'd do, and make a new map for some kind of nexus at the beginning of the game.

 

The map.patch file has very limited use. You can't fix a critter with a wrong basic proto (0x0C in mobile), or a wrong race (need to change race number, race effect, basic proto, possibly art, etc). And of course it's impossible to do any changes with inventory, leveling, etc. Some mobiles in the UAP were even remade from scratch.

Also, TROIKA designers made a few considerable mistakes while using the map.patch file. The map.patch can patch only MOBILES, it can't patch sectors. And scenery and portals are stored in sectors, so they can't be patched using this method. Yet there were a few fixes that tried to patch portals, so they never worked.