yeah, happens all the time, personally i'd say its a short cut to a solution, and not taking it would be stupid. now its not as easy as that most of the time, to get from A to B is not allways the goal, as in games. but i've exploited bugs in games, and i've hacked save files, used editors, trainers, codes etc etc.
Yes, I shamelessly exploit the silicon nature of my opponents. I know it's wrong, but I wanna win, dammit! <<< Calis, this smilie don't work as per FAQ; there are two : wink: ones. EDIT: I should probably point out that I've never used a hack, editor or exploited a bug. All I do is work out strategies for beating them game and then apply them - the poor ole comp can't adapt, so he loses every time. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sheriff Fatman on 2001-12-11 04:24 ]</font>
i often change small things in my games, its not as i want to cheat past the joy of playing(easily done if you go to far is what my experience tells me). to help me enjoy it more. anyway cheating is a mixed word, as it says i've cheated someone on something, and its not true when i change my games most of the time. i enjoy it more, and others doesn't suffer from it, so how is it cheating?
I used to cheat a fair bit, mainly messing around with games though, when I wasn't really into playing them. Now though, I'm fully against cheating, and do my best to avoid taking advantage of bugs and exploits. I didn't cheat when I played online games either.
I don't cheat the first couple times through a game. Especially in RPGs. It's only when I start losing interest that I'll mess around with character or save game editors, and squeeze that last bit of enjoyment out of the game before I shelve it. The exception to the rule is Roller Coaster Tycoon. I used the 2 million dollar cheat to develop coasters. I didn't see it as cheating, though, since I never used those coasters in the actual game. I just did it because it was fun building wild impractical designs. Sim City, too, I guess. I played the game straight out and enjoyed it, but I probably had even more fun cheating because I liked putting together dream cities and watching them grow. You know, trying out different design principles, seeing how they play out over the years, and then using what I learned in a straight (no cheat) game.
I never cheat. I'm used to getting bonus weapons or super cars and such after completing the game in super hard difficulty. Only then do I feel good using something there that's not supposed to be there.
oh well, i'd like to say that i don't cheat either, as i never cut me or others out of the joy of a game. so to not use some exploits or hacks would be cheating sometimes, as it would be less fun, and thus i'd cheat myslef out of the joy of playing *g* anyway i wont alter a game before i find that it would do better when its been altered. i never use things like god mode, and i never alter a game to my advantage in MP, neither do i alter a game to my advantage in SP most of the time, aside from the joy advantage of the new tweaks(like more life like weapons, and harder enemies)
I thought my argument the other day on #arcanum with you was flimsy monkey, but this oh so much worse.
w00t, you don't say J :* love you too, you little kitty. Anyway to the point, for me it would be stupid not to use ways to make a game more enjoyable for myself. I'm not someone who tries to make it easier, I often make it harder on myself, or otherwise change things just to keep the flare alive. For example did I change my whole party dozens of time when I played Icewind dale, what I did was that I droped all the items of the characters I had, and made new from scratch, and then "cheated" so that they had exactly the same XP as before. Then when they were new, I picked up the old items, this could be a pain as i often didn't have the same skills on the characters as before. I did this because I was starting to grow tired of the game, and the characters I was playing each time, but this "cheating" kept me intrested in the game, and i ended up going through it all. In fallout 2 I sometimes made illegal characters by editor, not often better, but weird, tried one with 1ones in all but 2stats, that i had 10 in(STR, and EN)to see if it worked, and that was cheating myself off points, I grew weaker. In the same game I gave 1's in stats instead of 2' when i used gifted sometimes, often I moved the point, but as often i just killed it(lost one point) In FOT I removed and changed bugged perks, and changed my party into what I wanted it to be, but still kept the chracters legal as in done by the book(its still hacking, and it was to my advantage, but i dissliked the chartacters of the game, no spirit) In BG2 the 2 last times through the game was with a tweaked paty, my character was normal, but I did new charcters that I wanted as NPC's, and then gave the NPC's in the game those values. Some parts wasn't by the book, like the fact that i made mazzy a paladin 2 times in a row, but that was it, the race issue and classes. Anyway i simply remade the NPC's of the game to what I thought more intresting people(and i didn't just max out the stats that are good, and put the rest on those that are not needed). In arcanum I got the merchant hack that made them carry all the items they should, all the time. Never felt the need to wait outside the shops a couple of days to find what i wanted, as this grew tiresome by the day. I also edited some character points, so that I didn't start with 8's in all, but with moved ones, to better suit my character(I did this with 1 out of 6). etc etc The point is that if I hadn't done things like that to the games, I'd droped them way before I did, perhaps not games like FO1 and FO2 but perhaps even those. For me its not cheating if the tweak I made did the game more fun to play. Sure its a modification, but I don't want to call it cheating, as then I would be cheating someone, and I don't. and.. Aint it stupid, I was talking in some IRC channel about how I had made my character weaker, and thus I was said to be a cheater? *g* people sure reacts funny, I wonder if they sometimes think at all. and... rules and laws are there to be broken, thats why the exists at all, its their point of being. and... J I don't waste my energy on people who goes around hating something for no reason at all. *monkey lights up a candle to highlight the mood* _________________ ...from bleeding hands. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: monkeypunch on 2001-12-11 22:33 ]</font>
Well, despite my earlier protests of innocence, there IS one feature I exploit - the savegame feature. There was a whole (surprisingly heated) debate about whether the feature should even have been included as it is in Arcanum. Some games limit the users ability to save, to discourage the trial-and-error approach to play, and also (by raising the stakes) to increase the value of a character's actions. I have found over the years, that over-using the save feature lessens my enjoyment of games, because it removes the element of risk and therefore takes the edge off the excitement. I do not really agree with limiting the save feature; people like me are theoritically able to refrain from using the one provided, if that's what we want. I WOULD recommend that any users out there who tend to "save before every action" give less saving a try. Unfortunately with Arcanum, the bugs necessitate a certain amount of saving, but if you saved, say, on entry to a new town, you'd probably never have to go back too far if hit by one. I'm definitely not alone in this attitude. I believe it's the whole philosophy behind the 'hardcore' mode of Diablo II.
actually i agree with every word personally i've played iron man from time to time, love that feature, if its playable(found that i had a hard time with it in arcanum due to bugs)but i've played through FO1 and FO2 without ever reloading a few times(and only saving when i quit playing). even if i'm someone who wont save often, i can understand those who do, and the game shouldn't limit your number of saves imo, perhaps though where you can save.
First of all, I explained what was going on there when I was on #arcanum. Using it later after the debate has finished and reasons explained is just desperate :grin:. Still, I think that the argument for your case was worse than mine. Then again, it's because I'm viewing it from my end :smile:. I would really like to forget those stupid statements I made that night though...
Sorry, MP, just saw this and had to comment (nastily, 'cos I'm a tosser). *Sheriff Fatman comes out, guns blazing* :akimbo: Do you by any chance work in the computer industry? If you do/did you should know the utter wrongness of your statement. Try making ANYTHING computational work without following the rules of the system. Why? Because - despite the frequency with which people make statements like yours - rules are, in fact, there to make life better, safer and more predictable. Systems don't work without rules, and we exist in a multitude of systems, whether we like it or not. Breaking the rules, while sometimes necessary during the evolution of new rules, mostly just gratifies/benefits one individual at the expense of the other individuals exsting within the same system.
sue me for being ego, its not like i bother about most of humanity, or it in general guess i've grown cold, i simply don't, i did once but i guess the naivie part left, and nowdays i only strife to copy what once was from time to time. about the statement. nothing wrong in in that statement, it depends on how you see it though, never said that you are to break a rule, and then don't bother about it. perhaps it would be more about bending then breaking. life is allways about the breaking of rules, to evolve anyway, as evolution is the step out of a old rule, into a new. what ever you do that is new for you is sort of breaking new ground, and breaking old rulers, and setting new ones. and well the part of me that loves anrcho syndicalism, but can't understand that it would never work, loves to say such things(the part of me that i lost contact with as i grew out of warmth). humanity is the devil. _________________ ...from bleeding hands. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: monkeypunch on 2001-12-12 04:38 ]</font>
i got them logged, so no worries i can post them anytime *innocent smile* oh well wasn't it something like - [j]"the BG series suxors!" [m]"why?" [j]"they are the work of satan, and too many people likes the series!!!" [m]"so have you tried any of it?" [J]"no.. but it still suxxors! everything that i haven't tried and liked suxxors!" [monkey]!k janior can't say that i know you, thus you must suxxors, so here you go very nice indeed.
I don't like the idea of cheating in a game that involves other people (unless we are all intentionally doing so). Otherwise if I'm playing a game that is no longer enjoyable and could be "revamped" with a cheat or hack or some sort I may try it out. Frankly, people who feel there is some moral implication for a game you are playing by yourself really need to stop trying to be a hero in their own mind. If there was a cheat/hack to make Pool of Radiance (for example) a playable game with a good interface then I'd definately try it out. When we play(ed) Total Annihilation, we all downloaded a hack to create strings of wall pieces (dragon teeth) instead of having to place each piece individually. It made that function much less tedious and the game more enjoyable. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Squish on 2001-12-12 04:58 ]</font>
Here comes my swipe in our little game of quote tennis ... I ain't gonna sue you for anything. We all make our own decisions and live with the consequences. Whether you bother with humanity or not, you're part of it (unless your name has more significance than I thought) and no man is an island (unless you've worked out how to grow palm trees out of your head, of course). Please don't confuse my goodwill/cooperative spirit with naivety. I'm well aware of some of the less attractive aspects of human nature. My choice not to emulate/resign myself to them is motivated in some part by self-interest, since I'd rather live on a cloud than in a pit. I have a degree of control over my state of mind. The whimsies of everyday life (and the muckiness of those around me) only have the power to bring me down if I let them. I can generate my own warmth and don't have to huddle with others to stay warm. Fair enough, you see that situation and say "Life's all about breaking rules". Another person could say "Life's all about setting rules." I'd say neither, since I think rules are not the focus of life in any way, whether to be broken or set. Rules make my life safer, better and more predictable, but generally in a pretty transparent way. And so ends the preaching of Reverend Fatman - who sounds like he's on one long positivity seminar, and will soon become a cult leader to gullible fools weighed down by the burdens of cash. :hippy: <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sheriff Fatman on 2001-12-12 06:46 ]</font>
You neglected to mention that I don't use l337 speak, you didn't write what I wrote, and you pulled your "I'm an admin, and I'm giong to kick you now" card, just to try and be funny - sure, it proved your point, but little else. You also forget to mention, AGAIN, that I explained what my position was after the debate was over - I don't like the BG series, either because I hate jumping on bandwagons and praising/condemning something without trying it first, or for some other indefinable reason which I don't understand and can't explain. Yes, I admit that my position was overly extreme - I don't hate the BG series, I just dislike it. What do you say to dropping the whole issue?
