Dear Arcanum Discussion Forum

Dear Arcanum Discussion Forum,

Stop being dead.

This game rules? Discuss.

Regards,

Leonidus

 

Agreed, on that note...

Elves are better than humans and technological characters are severely disadvantaged.

 

Well I've come up with a few more targets that could be used in the scavenger hunt thread, but nothing very exciting that would really warrant livening it up again.

As for ytzk's sage-like points, clearly half-elves are objectively the master race as they are the only race with a positive CP distribution (+1 BE, +1 DX, -1 CN = +1 overall) - beat that! I also think tech characters aren't really disadvantaged at all, magick characters just have it too easy, which leads me onto...

If you want some choice discussion, I've started musing that the devs vastly enjoyed creating options for tech characters in the game then they did do magick characters. Most of the spells in the game come across as rejects for other IE games, and for some not a lot of thought was put into balance either (I'm looking at you Harm) - whereas for the tech side of things you get loads of unique and interesting schematics (some of which alone would be worth basing an entire character on - e.g. the Tranquiliser Gun) and most of them seem pretty finely balanced in accord to the rest of the game. There's an opinion for you - now discuss!

 

*disintegrate*

I rest my case.

 

NO LOOT FOR YOU!

 

Super Arcanum Heresy Secret:

Gnomes are actually better pure casters than elves. +2 WP as a bonus stays good on all caster builds all game, while +MA from elves is wasted if you would've picked many spells anyway.

Always the fuckin gnomes ruining everything.

 

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However, this does make Elves the best techno-mages you can build (mages who have some tech - enough to build Automatons, high-end therapeutics or thrown explosives which all work great for high MA characters - and also full MA). I guess what you're looking for with those builds is enough MA to offset your TA, and with a Dark Helm elves can offset 7 points of tech (well almost, putting points into something that gives TA is worth slightly more than 5 TA as far as I can tell, meaning you'll need one more point of MA to offset the TA at high levels of TA) with no spell investment - along with any background you want to save more character points. Just make sure to use Unlocking Cantrip on the inventor's chest in the Wheel Clan out of hearing range for necessary tech components (lazy dwarves, leaving their stock rooms unlocked). It's a thing of beauty really.

Having said that going for an Only Child gnome and using the Finger of Mannox and the Vivifier so you don't have to spend a single point to get to 18 WP (and hey, if you're like me for most of the game you'll have Halcyon's blessing to hit 18 WP earlier than you'd get either of those benefits) is pretty special too.

 

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Elves are just better than humans for most everything. The -1 str can be overcome by any +1 str bonus (I think heartstone offering at lizard camp does it) so that you can still get the insane 20 str bonus damage.

You are 100% right about tech too. I mean even friendly healing spells can't work on them, jesus. How would you feel if you were wounded and dying, slumped up against a wall in the sewers you just had killed a monster in, only to hear Virgil say "Well...nothing to be done about that." Puritan tech parties have to waste forever gathering roots to make a pittance of healing salves, when all those problems for non-tech are solved by 1 point in the minor healing spell. That difference alone is just a huge advantage for magic.

Tech has to spend time and money gathering components, checking shops endlessly hoping for the right schematic, and if you're playing without Potion of Int + tech manuals abuse then you have to spend so many god damn character points that you can say goodbye to half the things you'd like to build.

Want to teleport instead of walk everywhere? Well that's a shame. If you're lucky, you get to pay money to some shady ship captain in hopes he'll take you where you want.

Oh you mean you wanted to actually fire that gun, or make that molotov cocktail? Enjoy digging through the trash. If Arcanum were more realistic, there would be office water-cooler style discussions amongst all the techies huddled constantly around trashcans. "You hear about Bob? Yeah, dead. Gun critical miss, you know how it goes. No, I'll pass on that large pipe, trying to stay away from the elephant guns since that last one murdered Bob."

The list of ways in which tech is worse than magic is rather endless, but the only reason it's even debated is because Arcanum items are so poorly balanced that tech has of course zero problem overcoming its faults and raping the world with a pyro axe since Tarant and after.

 

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This isn't entirely true, at least in the early parts of the game. I found that my herbologist character was a lot more effective than my (white) necromancer (especially due to not being forced to drink fatigue potions to stay conscious) and the crash site alone had enough stems and roots to make at least 20-30 salves. Not to mention the plant infested Shrouded Hills.

This is partly true, but I generally enjoyed salvaging for my pretty inventions, and you could generally make money from crafting and selling. However, you are correct in claiming that a tech character usually needs to limit herself (usually to two or three disciplines), but hey, mages can't pick every spell either.

Arcanum is fairly easy, so a tech character made the game a bit more challenging but no less fun for that.

 

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Yeah Ruda TA seems to work like MR, 100 = zero chance but lower let's things through eventually. Another horrible thing worse about TA is that it just doesn't matter for items nearly as much. The +fail doesn't affect the way a lot of tech items work, so anyone can use them regardless. Magic items give better bonuses to higher MA characters, but a 100 TA character experiences tech items the same as a neutral one. High MA will dodge the bullets of guns for you, but high TA has no effect against magical weapons tohit%.

Jojo you are right about half-elven supremacy, their stats are pretty great and it means pretty much anyone who would make a human should instead make a half-elf. The exception being tech characters who don't like the MA, but neutral fighter/mage/battle mage/diplomat all benefit more from half-elf.

As far as designers enjoying creating tech stuff, I'd say yes and no. Notice how many of their tech items just don't work properly at all. Their spells don't seem to have that problem. Although cursed items seem to sometimes. So they might have liked the creativity but hated the debugging madness. Figuring out how the special tech effects work in the game files is so much harder because of this fact that a lot of what's in there never functioned as intended in the first place.

Totally right, my good man. Elven technomancy is as ironic as it is beautiful. Halflings get the highest dex cap though, so one dex maxed with potion of haste + temporal spells would get the most damage out of guns per round. They aren't as inclined for other magely endeavors however, so elves can really pull off that balance of strong spells and good tech.

 

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This inequality does tend to be a bit annoying. It seems to me that magick thieves are always better than tech ones as they can lockpick without difficulty (despite it being a tech skill and relying on tech items) and additionally get a whole host of magick equipment they can use in addition to this to make them better thieves (any of the magick items that improve the thievery based skills, in addition to things like Elven Boots with it's enormous bonus to NP to make prowling easier).

Some interesting points, I'd say this meant they were trying to push the boundaries with tech whereas magick (apart from a few nice examples such as the well implemented Conjure Spirit) comes across as being more formulaic and less inspired. For the most part I find it more difficult to get into playing a magick based character for this reason as it feels like I could be doing the same thing in a dozen other games, but with a tech character (or tech character with a magick twist) I'm usually much more enthused.

I always play real-time, so the whole broken mechanics of high speed with turn-based are never something I experience and so I have little to no reason to play a halfling. I find it more fun for gameplay to be somewhat reliant on my twitch-based reaction times and ability to retarget effectively than literally speed=instawin. It certainly makes backstabbing more fun, especially when using Stun, as you have to run around the enemy's rear and hope the stay stunned in order to get an effective backstab (Statis makes this infinitely easier).

 

I just reread the discussion forum subtitle text for the first time in ages and realized what ytzk did to us.

Well played, sir, well played.

 

Dear Arcanum Discussion Forum,

Thanks for not being dead.

Carry on.

Sincerest Appreciation,

Leonidus

 

There seems to be some activity around here, but some first page threads are kind of old.

I registered to ask a question, being lazy instead of working to level 50 to answer the question I had. Maybe I'll hang around, though. This game is old, but very fun. Too bad it didn't have a sequel/remake. I could imagine a sequel being when technology has been in full swing again, and magic is coming back.

It's a little odd that the technological revolution has come, and can be helped along by helping the wheel Clan and Arronax rebuilding Vendigroth, but a spell caster is still the easiest way to go. Not that technology isn't fun, but some things magic only can do (teleport, transforming, summoning) seem to just be better than things only technology can do (craft and repair equipment).