Items Spells Skills Stats Usefullness and Maximization

The FAQ is on gamefaqs (and presumably other game sites that copy them)

As for a reply

1.) I don't care you don't agree with me, I care more that you speak in terms of half-ogres are the best melee fighter rather than explaining why you think they are the best

2.) Stat maximum is different than racial cap. Unless WIP changed how the vivifier worked (which I doubt), I know for a fact the vivifier can raise the stat maximum if its lower than the racial cap

You actually piqued my curiosity with the halfling gunslinger. Next week I'll check the damage/turn difference between a halfling gunslinger and a half-elf gunslinger. I'm doubting the extra 1 speed makes a difference, but the critical hit chance will. Whether or not that's worth 2-3 CP cost is something I'll leave as an opinion

 

Grossen, the objective of the FAQ is to prevent players from having a hard time and quitting, not to determine which playstyle they'll most enjoy. What is deemed best is in reference to increasing combat performance, particularly easy combat performance because these are beginners.

So I don't think I should say something like "well as soon as you leave shrouded hills run to the location of ashbury and get the dog because he does insane damage and then walk along the coastline north through a series of thousands of clicks on the map past the grey mountains and head to the bangellian deeps and get the bangellian scourge at level 5." This is for beginners, so complex things which would make them do extremely well are going to be left out.

Similarly, I shouldn't say "hey just play a sickly halfling melee tech warrior because it's a fun challenge." Players new to the game don't need more difficulty thrown at them.

This isn't a maximizing enjoyment FAQ, it's more of a prevent frustration and game abandonment FAQ. I want to keep these players going through their first run of Arcanum, so that they can then go back through it in all of the amazingly fun ways in which the game allows. And I think that is important to keep in mind: these new players have a chance of giving up on the game at difficult parts of their first playthrough, such as the BMC.

The nature of the FAQ (detailing character development and stat usefulness) is also what allows a second part for cp maximization. Because it can be a resource for everything you need to know about making a character, a cp maximization analysis fits in after that.

I stand by my recommendation of the level cap remover. If they finish the game before 50, then it doesn't affect gameplay. If they finish the game after 50, then being invincible is not different from being more invincible, but it does allow further progression on the stat screen, leaving something left to achieve stat-wise.

CJH I speak in terms of maximizing combat. +4 STR and 10 DR is the best bonuses a race can get for a melee fighter. That's a position I don't find hard to defend.

I think you are right that I only tried to raise stats over the basic 20 or the racial bonus higher caps, I don't believe I tried to use it to mitigate caps which were lowered. Thank you again.

I use the term stat max or stat cap to simply mean the highest that stat can go on your hero.

I did even more testing today, because the STR thing really bugs me, and have found some important contrary findings. It seems there is in fact a threshold for racial bonuses, not a simple supremacy, where only if a background lowers it below 20 will the max then be lowered.

For example, previous tests included male ogre miracle operation. STR still can go to 24. Half orc female, str can still go to 21. The max for the stat was unaffected by the choices I kept testing. Half ogre in particular has no background which will lower his STR lower than the original +4 bonus.

Today I tried some more. Halfling male sickly still gets DEX maxed at 22. Orc male miracle op gets max STR of 19, not 21, not 18 (he can increase it by 13 points from 6). Same results on a dwarf male miracle op, and an orc male ladies man. A male gnome ran with circus maxes WILL at 21, not 22, not 19.

What seems to be happening here is that there is a threshold built around 20 where any race bonus increases the max, but only negatives below 20 reduce the cap by the amount from 20 it is reduced.

Correction will be made as soon as I am sure.

Furthermore, it is uncertainty in general about things as important as this which make me really think this kind of FAQ should exist. Things like "you can only raise a stat by 12" need to be proven wrong.

In closing, I apologize that I haven't gone through the game as many times as some of you, or that I haven't posted here as long as some of you, or that I found the game more recently than many of you. But I love this game, and that makes me want to share that love with others through contributions to the game.

My first post here was about 2 methods of crossing the mountains, which it seems no one else had encountered before. I started on this forum by furthering the knowledge of arcanum, and I intend to continue to do so, as much as I am able.

Surely you cannot blame me for this. Perhaps a more charitable tone towards a younger adventurer is deserved. It certainly would be appreciated. To those of you who have been reasonable so far (and many have seemed to become moreso) you have my thanks.

 

None of this is a fault, and it's definitely not your passion or willing to contribute to the game's knowledge base that would originally cause any animosity. However, by your own admission, you've not played through the game as much as you feel other members have.

Some of the advice originally present in the FAQ wasn't accurate, and you yourself noted after the fact there are separate racial caps on top of the base 20 maximum. Naturally, you can't raise any stat by more than 12 points - though you can with blessings and the charged ring, but the stat affected will not go above 20 unless the race allows it.

And yes, your FAQ is designed to help new players not quit out of frustration, which actually would've been great to have when I started out myself. Though, the way you suggest initial CP distribution is not the only way to start a successful character, and certainly fudges things at higher tech alignments for certain characters. It's good that this guide exists, but the way it's worded it will convince new players not to try any other format of point distribution.

 

So to summarize your guide: In order to maximize their enjoyment of the game, instead of looking for a guide that explains various options that would be beneficial to the type of character they want to play, and instead take your non explained word that they should one of the following for their 1st playthrough

1.) A dumb dialogue half ogre that ran away from the circus (terrible choice for a new player that hasn't played the game once)

2.) A halfling gunslinger that was raised by orcs (and therefore has 1 companion to carry things, heal, provide skills, and assuming the player hasn't mastered combat enough to F5 all the time fight)

3.) A only child mage (once again only has 1 companion to carry things, heal, provide skills, and assuming the player hasn't mastered combat enough to F5 all the time fight)

Arcanum is an easy easy game.

The few challenges for new players (bridge thieves, BMC etc) are going to catch new players by surprise unless they read a walkthrough telling them what to look for

I'm doubting anyone has ever finished Arcanum with the 1st character created, and I would even more so doubt they would make it to the BMC with a character someone else told them to build

Your style is geared toward a powergaming guide. Write that instead. if you explain it well people here might even accept it

 

>Playing Arcanum for the gameplay

Whatever happened to the engaging setting and storyline

 

Then please reword/rewrite or source everything you reference.

Again, I'm not being a dick for the sake of being a dick (I do that in the GD), but because I've legal issues to keep from occurring (i.e: GameFAQ's suing us for 'stealing' their content).

Lastly, I'd love a wiki. I don't have the time to build one, however. You have the information and are capable of compiling it. Why not build a wiki? We can restrict access to who can log-in and edit it, then allow proven contributors to improve/correct data, once you've done a massive dump of it. If we post a link to it on the main page of the website, it'd be readily accessible.

 

Like an entire stats and skills section, explaining what every part of your character helps you do? Maybe some suggestions too, like lets say:

Overall: if you want good fighting, max your weapon skill first, so go for dex then str. Dex first lets you get the skills you need to even hit the enemy, as well as good speed. Str then brings in the damage. If you need access to spells, willpower. If you are crafting as a technician, then get intelligence.

or maybe:

nonmagic theives need lockpicking, magic users need unlock spell.

or something like:

Gunslingers are looking for DEX and PER. INT allows you to create good guns

And don't you think it's strange that you consider an explanation of the bonuses from every stat and the useful skills an "unexplained suggestion"?

The difficulty of arcanum for new players is only a product of the game not being well explained, and that is what I will change. I finished the game with the first hero I made.

Please try not to just make up strange opinions about what you didn't read in the FAQ. It is quite frustrating.

Grossenschwamm, I've only been wrong on a handful of things so far (about 5 corrections properly pointed out in this thread). I didn't note after the fact that there are racial caps over the normal 20 max, that information is in the FAQ. You're wrong to say a stat can only be increased by 12. There are race/background combos that allow for more than 12 into a stat. And it's sayings like that which make this information necessary, my friend.

Lastly, let me give you some examples of why I had to make this FAQ. Here are some results from searching this forum for stat max and stat cap:

oni5115
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:04 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Well 20 is the max, unless you have a racial bonus which allows you to go higher. Backgrounds can add or subtract from a stat, but do not affect the maximum for your race.

Josho
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:45 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Half ogres cant get 20 int. max for any stat is 20 +/- racial modifiers. background cant increase it, but it can decrease it.

http://terra-arcanum.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... t=stat+max
This post does not talk at all about how stat maxes increased by a race are brought down concerning background/gender reductions. And this is by Drog, nonetheless.

So the information on this literally just isn't available. Until now!

Edit for DarkFool: I could add a fair use portion in the updated version specifically saying that placing any and all information on the terra-arcanum forum is allowed.

Building a wiki seems like a lot more effort, and I have already spent quite a good deal into this FAQ. Maybe it's super easy, I've never made a wiki, but to do 40 separate pages for each thing does sound arduous.

Worse comes to worse, if it comes to a point where there is no way to have this info on your site for legal reasons, then I understand. Do what you need to do.

 

What Gross meant is that you cannot manually add more than 12 CPs in a stat and that is correct.

That is not true. What is true is that only a handful of things were pointed out directly. I've only skimmed through your posts because of their length and composition and stumbled upon numerous lesser or greater errors.

Haven't posted, though, because just properly reading through it all would take tons of time and effort, let alone pointing out all of the errors accompanied with their appropriate corrections, occasionally preceded by finding them out in-game when exact numbers aren't recalled.

That is one of the reasons creating a wiki is being recommended to you by some here. People read those. How many new players will read a mile long post without a wiki's user-friendly arrangement and interface?

By the way, are you using Virgil's Debug Menu hack? If not, you should, it will save you tons of time with any Arcanum-related work.

 

This and most of what came after it in your post directly before my last one allowed me to say "after the fact." Having anything other than the information you collected due to more testing being done, would've been incorrect.

Muro had it on the nose. The only way to add more than 12 points in a stat is through blessings or specific stat-raising items - I used the word "naturally" to say all increases beyond 12 points are done artificially. I also recommend the Virgil Debug hack for any in-game research to speed things up dramatically. Your dedication is admirable, but you too may fall victim to "quitting out of frustration" if no simpler way can be found to get the information you seek.

 

All subjects male: A half-orc miracle op can raise str from 6 to 19 and con from 4 to 17 (+13 each) using only cp. Half ogre miracle op can rase str from 9 to 24 (+15). A gnome agoraphobic can raise willpower from 8 to 22 (+14). Gnome ran with circus yields will from 7 to 21 (+14). The list goes on and on. Let's stick to the facts, gentlemen!

Corrections/additions list I have so far:
----------------------------------------

PER doesn't affect bow (check) Bow skill is listed as dex. Firearms is PER. (eyewear, stats correction)

Stat caps pushed over 20 by race which arent lowered below 20 by background seem to always stay at their absolute race max (STR 24 ogre, 22 DEX halfling, etc). Stat caps increased by race then lowered below 20 have their max lowered by the amount they overwhelm the racial bonus. OR SO IT SEEMS.

Need the tech potions which raise stats permanently (test). Can raise stat maxes up to 20 (test).

Missing any significant +stat items?

Spell Level Requirements (listed on spell learning screen)

Charged Ring dex range

-2FT only on turns where more ap used than your max

vivifier or blessings raise reduced stat caps? (test)

5 INT req for spell learning

INT intelligent dialogue requirement (5? test)
------------------------------------------------

Many of the testing requirements are low, so shouldn't be too hard.

As far as testing method goes, the download link on the terra arcanum page for the virgil debug doesn't work (nofile). I just checked for the original mod thread and downloaded it from a link there though, so thank you. I previously was using actual leveling up, and later moved into using Poke (a universal game cheating program). This debug mod is nice so far.

I am sympathetic to the idea of a wiki.

 

Forgive my incredulity, but I'd like to see a video of this occurring. It's something I've never encountered in the game. Either that or someone else running on the same patch as you confirming it - I'd do it myself, but I've been posting on other people's PCs for a few months.

 

Did a fresh install of arcanum and tested ogre miracle op again. 15 points to 24 str just like last time.

Installed in this order:
Arcanum
official patch
unofficial patch
high res patch

 

I will attest to the fact Leonidus is most likely correct; I can remember playing a rare half-ogre birth and being able to raise my strength to 24 despite the fact it should be capped at 22 considering the background. What causes this I don't have a clue but I don't find the fact that it extends to more backgrounds than just the one surprising. I guess the bug/willingly-incorporated-feature seems to be invoked when the stat maximum has been raised by race already and then the deficient background applied lowers it again but I'm not sure.

 

For your clarification jojo I'll reiterate my findings so far.

When a race raises a stat max, that max is only lowered by the amount other factors reduce the stat below 20.

So race +4 background -6 = stat max +4 from race then -2 from [24-6 = 18 which is 2 lower than 20]

also expressed as

race bonus - (background/gender which lowers it below 20) + race bonus +20 = stat max

and this ONLY occurs when the stat is lowered below 20

That is how ogre str is eternally 24, no combination of backgrounds will overcome the +4 str bonus.

Interesting is it not? I find it important.

 

I can't really follow your calculation but I get the gist.

Basically if you have have a higher than average maximum statistic race value (>20) it's only if a starting background enforces a value below 8 that the maximum value changes. For every value under 8 that a background enforces for a ordinarily higher value race (eg half-ogres ST=12) their original race value is reduced on a point by point basis below 8. However if a background improves an original value of a race to 8 or greater their maximum value is capped at twenty.

Importance of this fact is subjective to play-style; as someone already stated this is really more of a min-max sort of thread rather than a beginners' FAQ. Many, many people have suggested min-max builds on this forum before, including myself, so unless someone is incapable of using the search function there's not a great deal of use collating all this information into one thread. As DF mentioned a wiki is of use but this isn't what you seem keen to achieve; I'm not trying to be a hardass but that's just the way I see it.

Case in point - I'm playing the Bioshock 2 expansion currently (Minerva's Den) and I'm going in completely blind as to how to optimise my character. If I think it's worthy of a replay, due to the story elements I missed out on, I then might try and min-max because I'm no longer a beginner and read a guide. However I wouldn't deem a guide on the subject a "beginner's guide" because I'm no longer a beginner and that's not what I'm after. A wiki really would be the most suitable place for this information; somewhere players could get greater info if they wanted it but not if they just wanted beginner level information like several websites - such as gamebanshee - already provide about Arcanum.

Also for God's sake - at least put Disintergrate as one of the most powerful spells in Arcanum. I know it's not necessary but it is the spell for any "maximized" mage, and its glaring omission effectively stabs me in the eye every time I look at the original post.

 

I see, that makes more sense. The background only has any bearing if the stat in question starts at 8. The reason I hadn't experienced it is because I'd never played a race/background combo where the stat lowered was more than 8. Very good to know!

 

Right you are jojo. The amount which other background factors overwhelm the race bonus is the amount by which the racial bonus to stat max is lowered. So if a race raises stat above 8, that is added to max, and if background/gender forces the stat to start below 8, then the distance from 8 is the reduction in the stat max.

At least that is what explains everything so far.

Also I agree this entire thread has not been productive for beginners, but who's fault is that? I keep asking you guys for contributions, but too many of you are reluctant.

The first post has the FAQ itself however, which you should notice is still entirely geared towards beginning players. Character min maxing hasn't been added yet. The first post was edited for v1.0 of the FAQ, it will be edited with the next version (coming soon). There was simply nowhere on these forums to get this kind of quality information, especially easily laid out, and so I made it myself. I was given much hell for such a sinister idea.

The reason I think a min maxing section fits afterward is because game and character mechanics are already extensively covered in the FAQ, and the FAQ is almost entirely about character design. An advanced section would be welcome at the end.

Also min maxing arcanum interests me, regardless of how unnecessary it is. So that's probably why I personally want to do it.

 

I gave you a suggestion and you don't acknowledge it. It's pretty helpful to have an alternate to the beginning CP distribution you say makes every character easier to start with, especially if it allows for a personally functional ability later on depending on your character's aptitude direction. A magickal character will benefit from herbology as well, as there's not a drop in effectiveness for healing plants. Using a healing salve (or any other tech item) doesn't cost fatigue, which is good if you're currently being bludgeoned.

Keep the ingredients on one of your NPC's and retrieve them when the stock gets low. Either way, you've got finite healing, but the way I've mentioned is effective no matter what your aptitude is.

 

Well, my two cents:

A worthy project, nicely done.

Two statements I disagree with:

1) don't be a female.

What's wrong with female pcs? Elven witches are better mages than elven wizards on account of the CN bonus. They can't go into the gentlemen's club, but they can get work at madam lil's. Now that's equality!

2) Drog is a fine gent. A fine programmer? Sure. An invaluable contributer to the longevity of Arcanum? Certainly. A fine gent? No. I submit his last post as evidence, to say nothing of the last hundred.

 

Yztk, con is almost entirely worthless and str is quite useful. You get free fatigue every level from leveling up, so 2 extra fatigue from 1 con is pretty negligible compared to easier carrying capacity and better melee early on. Even on a mage. You are completely correct though that as far as pure mageness is concerned, the female with 2 extra fatigue would be that little bit more magely.

On any other type of character it's not even debatable though, 1 str isnt worth 1 con on a thief, warrior, technician, gunslinger, and so on. But like I've said before, the cool thing about arcanum is that any type of character can own, it's not like 1 str is some unsurmountable problem. Just not recommended for new players is all.

As far as Drog goes, calling him a classy gent was just recognition of his contributions patch-wise. I don't know him personally.

Grossen, you should remember that the minor healing suggestion begins with "ALL CHARACTERS HAVE A MUCH EASIER START...." Herbology may indeed be better because it can be used without reducing fatigue in battle and applies to all character types, and because of this it certainly deserves a mention as an alternative. But I wouldn't say it's easier.

First of all new players are unfamiliar with crafting, they don't know that you can pick up certain plants, they don't know what those plants look like even if you tell them to, and then once they do know they have to spend all the time to do it. I think years of experience might make it hard to remember this. I personally remember trying herbology for the first time (back in november) on my 2nd playthrough. It is about 10x the hassle of sleeping and casting the same spell 10 times, almost whenever you want. Which I would say is much easier, and that has certainly been my experience. Tech characters also don't seem to rush to extreme levels of TA, so they benefit for quite a good deal of time (and the first half is when you have a real chance of dying anyway).

Jojo you are right that disintegrate does the most damage in arcanum. I didn't add it because of the 50 FT cost and destroying corpses, so other spells really are more useful as combat spells. Like I mention in the FAQ, fireflash and harm are really the 'go to' combat spells, good for basically everything at every part of the game. I would certainly agree that disintegrate deserves on the spell list mentioning the drawbacks (just as I list fireflash drawbacks) because it is like you said, the most powerful spell in arcanum. So as far as mage optimization goes (for min maxing later) you are absolutely correct my good man. If I remember right, getting favor of the magical school halves mana use? So that would make disintegrate better, inconveniently near the very end of the game.

Edit for darkfool:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/help/entry.html?cat=29
Now, keep in mind that GameFAQs has no legal authority to stop this activity. Only the original author of a FAQ can take action against copyright infringement.