J.R.R Tolkien and Arcanum

Beast you think you know about J.R.R Tolkien!

You say you have read his books well I can tell that you went through it wayyyyyyy tooo fast!
You should be able to spell the names of the characters!
P.S. It is Eowyn not Eovin!
get names right!

 

You can talk! It's Elrond, not Elrond93561

 

Class is now in session.

So you want to know about Professor Tolkien? Fine.

J.R.R. Tolkien was an Oxford Don (Professor) whose specialties included linguisitcs and Norse mythology. He was one of the foremost experts on old english literature including Beowulf. His professional interests fed into his fictional writings, but he took base materials (existing mythologies and folk tales) and used them to create a complete and cohesive world including its own creation account (opening segment of the Silmarillion); legends/mythologies; history; and languages (everything started as a professional experiment in the development of language) including Quenwa, Sindarin, and, I believe, Angerthas and by language I mean script, not just words. Although he drew on, say, Norse mythos involving dwarves it like saying computers aren't creative because they use silicon and people have been using sand for centuries.

mrnobodie, your use of the term 'hobbit puppies' suggests you remember far less from the book than you believe. And calling Tolkien a prude simply because he doesn't mention sex or certain bodily functions? Please explain how the narrative is improved by such things. You mention the Belgariad series as favoured books. I agree they were a fun read, but there is a reason one is considered a fun read and the other is considered a fun read AND accomplished literature, modern standards or otherwise.

On hobbits -vs- halflings. Halfling was a term adopted by various fantasy franchises in the wake of the Tolkien estate's vigorous campaign to protect the copyright. It was a cosmetic change, but use over the years has resulted in some drift. Third Edition AD&D halflings are less like the Tolkien hobbits than First Edition halflings were for example. Good thing really, as it shows some creativity. Tolkien's creation was utterly brilliant, but so many hackneyed adaptations of it (and worse) get in the way of newcomers getting to the heart of its beauty and originality.

For the record, I've logged over fifteen readings of LOTR and nearly as many with The Hobbit, Silmarillion twice, Roverandom once, Farmer Giles of Ham a few times, Sir Gawain & the Green Night once or twice, various other Middle Earth writings, and cited Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories" in my Master's Thesis in psychology. And I don't read or write any of the languages Tolkien created. I don't want to get fanatical about it.

 

No we don't, actually. What a waste huh?

 

I wrote eovin because i am currentley reading Tolkien in some other language then English!
so i don't know how to write the names!

(thats to Elrond)

_________________
I will be back !
Maybe...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ring lord on 2001-11-19 20:23 ]</font>

 

How dare you(Ioo)?!
you scum! :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

1. Thanks for the potted history. I'm a (lesser) Tolkien fan, and enjoyed your take on his bio.

2. Maybe it is a good thing that 3rd edition halflings are more distinct from the original Hobbits - I don't know, I stopped at 2nd edition when all my freinds ran off. However, it'd be weird if AD&D showed some extra creative effort for halflings and left elves and dwarves a la Tolkien. Did they?

3. Too late, I'd say :wink:

 

SCUM - combination of some nasty shit with other and salad dressing... damn it I forgot...

 

Thank you, Sheriff Fatman.

Dwarves are still pretty much the same, but there are no fantasy elves that I know of that compare to Tolkien's. In Middle Earth the various elvish folk are taller than humans and as strong if not stronger. You don't mess with the elves because they'll kick your butt. None of this silly spell casting stuff, either, just pure, unadulterated put-a-sword-through-your-brainpan buttkicking.

There are also vast differences between Tolkien's representation of magic and the way everybody else presents it; and the origins of orcs. But those are other stories for another time.

 

I see what you mean about elves, but before Tolkien didn't elf pretty much mean a wee man who fixed your shoes at night?

Okay, D&D couldn't make let them be super strong, and for some reason they lost the walking on snow thing, but the fantasy genre still tends to take the following points for its "stock" elves:

• Being the first race.
• Being a 'magical' race.
• Having a strong affinity for trees/nature.
• Being super-graceful.
• Being insular, detached from the masses
• Possessing immensely long lives
• BEing superior craftsmen

I'm pretty sure this list could go on much longer.

As for the origin of orcs, I'm not sure what you mean. I thought Tolkien said orcs were a poor attempt at mimicking elves, or possibly created to mock them. I'm not sure I have heard many alternates offered. Normally the origin of that poor benighted race is glossed over ...

It's the origin of trolls I like, cos the're based on the super-groovy treants.

 

SILLY SPELL CASTING STUFF???

What part of being turned to dust or set on fire or disentegrated or turned to stone or otherwise being obliterated by spells is silly? :smile:

I, too, thought have always gotten that impression; that elves were a rather magickal lot.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bryant1380 on 2001-11-20 17:38 ]</font>

 

U people make me sick!

Orcs are Elves that were ruined in the first age of Middle-Earth by Melkor the Evil Valar"Elven God".

Melkor stole Elves while they were traveling to Valinor to see the light of the two trees.

He then took them to his stronghold and corupeted them. Turing them in to Orcs and Goblins.
P.S.
There is a guy called Elrond on this site that took my name so I just added my zip code to the end of my name.

 

Well the folk tales of elves, yes, tended to be rather leprechaunish or smaller. However, Tolkien was building more on the notion of Faery and the Fay folk. The mysterious and sometimes dangerous realms that exist on the periphery of our awareness. His story 'Smith of Wooton Major' sort of captures this more clearly. Tolkien made a clear distinction between children's stories and fairy stories and the idea of the wee little cobbler (keebler?) elves is firmly in the former camp.

For your points of similarity, yes there are more of those than differences, but there is a different -feel- to Tolkien's elves. Being the first race means someting. And though 'magical' they do not practice what standard fantasy means when it talks of magic. In the whole of The Hobbit and LOTR how many distinct castings of spells are there? How many of those are executed by elves? And in Tolkien they are superior craftsmen, but in standard fantasy that distinction usually goes to dwarves or gnomes. Tying these points together in Arcanum, a Tolkien elf would build a Balanced Sword with subtle enchantments to it while the standard fantasy elf would make something more akin to a Stillwater Blade.

For games like Arcanum and AD&D, though, there are issues of balance. Literary worlds require none. Tolkien's elves, like the men of Westernesse and the Hobbits at their best are calls to nobliity, loyalty, faithfulness, endurance, etc. AD&D elves are too add a flavor of fantasy to the gaming world and give players who want to use magic a race with an edge.

Elrond's got your origin of orcs answer.

 

Not to change the subject

Oyarsa how could I get my Icon thing that says I am an expert changed to one of the speicial things that only staff members can change?
What would I have to Do?

 

elrond93561,
PM Calis or Monkeypunch. I believe they're the ones who set those up. Beware, we mods can be a fickle bunch.

 

Hoho - careful Elrond, there's been a lot of talk about faeries recently. Don't let the pixies get your icon :wink:

Thanks for the Orc history, btw. I'm literally gonna impress my girlfriend with that in minute ... really.

Oyarsa, I can defintely see where you're coming from on the efl thing, and there is no doubt that the stock fantasy elf is a poor shadow of Tolkien's creation's. They are a shadow though, I thihk.

I can't see where they would have come from. My point about the shoemaker story, is that those were the creatures associated with the label. They were much more in 'pixie' feel of thing.

I'm guessing that Tolkien was the first author to introduce the idea of the civilised elf, having history and societal structure, rather than being a group of wild things under oredered about by Puck and Titania.

 

Hmm

How can I cet in contact with those staff members and also.
How can I become a staff member?
Are there age or country restrictions?
I have play Arcanum through twise and I think that this is enough to guide people though arcanum.

 

So what's the difference between being turned to dust and being diintegrated?.. You should have added turned into powder, small particles, and all of that stuff too man...
And elfes got really nerfed in games, but that's for balance's sake. :smile:

And spells are silly. :smile:

Oh and Elrond, no one took your name, it's your fault taht you can't come up with something new. Funny how all those people have same nicks.

 

You lie

Look up Elrond in the member file. That person joined the day before I did. Remember he had a pic of an Elf in his sig.

 

He's gone!

He was there I swear!
He had A pic of an Elf wearing a blue robe his character was a "Ladys Man."

Does anyone else rember him?