'Scuse me why'll rim the sky...

It had to have been sarcasm, because if "extremely intuitive" means the same type of device used in FF8 to keep the party from encountering monsters the player absolutely could not kill at that time, then yes, Oblivion's level scaling was extremely intuitive.

 

I liked Oblivion.

 

I didn't like the lunch breaks. The game itself wasn't bad, per se, but I enjoyed Morrowind more than I liked Oblivion. Oddly enough, my favorite part of Morrowind was when I first used the Scroll of Icarian Flight. Being flattened by such a great fall is a spectacular way to die.

 

Personally, as a function of my local climate, I prefer green grass and flowing water in my fantasy games.

I prefer Oblivion to Morrowind, and Baldur's Gate to Icewind Dale.

My experience of Morrowind was just too damned hot and dusty.

 

Like sex with Mom from Futurama.

 

No u. In the context of the rest of my post, you may find that I was pointing at TES being definitive in CRPG's. And it kinda is, the series has been going for ~20 years. Obviously it's not the only game to have shaped the genre in that timeframe, but it's definitive none the less.

I never said I was referring to anyone in particular with that comment, nor to any particular game.

No. That one should be obvious.

If you'd actually played skyrim you'd realise that you can't fast travel to undiscovered locations. Fast travel was also in FO3 (gasp). And DA:O. Quest compass... Maybe not such a good thing IMO but I don't see it going anywhere fast.

Also, not really hand holding. Don't fast travel if you don't want to. Disable the quest compass if you don't want it. Not everyone wants to play a 'hardcore' RPG where they have to work out everything themselves, you know. Some people just want to load a game up, dick about for a bit, and enjoy the story if they can. It's unfair for the minority to throw a tantrum every time a game is targeted to a wider audience purely because they expect that every game ever made should cater to their exacting standards at a cost to everyone else.

Same goes for 12yo's... 12yo is basically the market these days, if you can't deal with that or the idea that game developers Need Money Too then don't buy games.

So... Out of Skyrim, DA:O, FO3, and F:NV (3 of which are Bethesda titles, 2 of them being based on nearly the exact same tech as Oblivion) which do you think will sell higher? Obviously stats or the lack of aren't the determining factor in that, but point is no-one but a select few give a rats arse about numbers in a video game.

Personally I don't give a crap if some random bandit has 1 point more in agility than me. It doesn't mean jack in a real life context and nor should it in a game. Yes maybe character sheets etc. have been useful to quantify various attributes in the past, but we are at the point now where various other gameplay mechanics need to be looked at to fulfill the same role. Otherwise we'll be playing the exact same game in 20 years, albeit with different characters.

If I want to dick about with numbers I'll do some mathematics or visit the P&P idiots down the street. You seem to think that pen&paper RPGs are still integral to CRPG's, which they aren't.

All I was saying was that in Skyrim your character progresses better. You were the one that brought up Oblivions level scaling.

No. I want an engaging story with diverse characters, complex game world and the freedom to do whatever the hell I want providing it fits in with the setting. TES has always been lacking on the story and character front but makes up for it elsewhere. Please let me tell myself what I want from a game next time, thanks.

No, you want a HARDCORE crpg where you can obsess over arbitrary stat sheets and modifiers all the while trying to convince yourself that the +10 in some random, ambiguous stat you just got actually makes the game 'better' and 'more realistic'; all the while hoping the next FedEx quest your character completes is enough to push them up a 'level' so they can 'develop'. This is not something many mainstream (and yes games are targeted at mainstream audiences) are interested in.

I also never said that Oblivion wasn't shit or otherwise. Completely not the point of my previous post.

 

Go make a mage character. Pure mage. Nothing else. Go to Whiterun. Go to the companions. Ask to join. Follow Vilkas outside. Pull out your fists and punch him. You're now a member of the most elite fighters group in Skyrim, who hate mages.

Ahhh, the freedom to do anything, even if it makes completely no sense. No skillchecks, no dicerolls. Just a game where you can sneak around people with claymores in heavy armor and cast magic in platemail as effectively as an average mage.

And guess what! You can make a new character and... do exactly the same shit over again in the exact same way because there's no longer any distinction between characters.

 

Need a tissue Kaitol?

 

It really depends how you play characters. I've just started an Altmer pure mage and an Orc two weaponed fighter, and they play dramatically differently. Setting it to master helps greatly to tailor characters to certain quests, but of course if you set it to easy you can do anything. Oh and also there's this thing called role-playing which means you don't have to play every quest available. Anyway, have fun Kaitol, really I hope you enjoy completing the rest of the Companions' quests early on master with a pure mage - me personally I'm having trouble with a straight up fighter but I'm sure you'll do fine with a pure mage.

I think the only thing that's bothering me significantly at the minute is how some of the supposed "nords" in the game have a south african accent. Then again this is more ridiculous than it is genuinely irritating.

 

I'm new to these types of games (I did play about 50% of the way through Fallout 3 though, probably the closest type of game) and while I'm having fun, the first thing I thought of was Kaitol's comment. I made a pure mage, and literally did what he stated in his post. I had to punch him since I didn't have a weapon on me. As soon as I was able to join from doing that I was like "wtf this game is retarded."

I haven't stopped playing, but little moments like that take me out of it. The problem with making a game that is otherwise so good is the moments that fall short really stand out. Overall I'm really enjoying the game.

P.S. I found Charonte's initial post in this thread elitist and insulting (which is pretty damn impressive, considering what this board is and all), but had nothing constructive to reply with so I didn't.

 

I just think of it as the guilds letting a grunt do the leg-work that they don't want to - in that first mission you have to do a lot of pointless fetching and carrying which illustrates this point. Also the higher up guild quests are much more tricky. Any character can max all the skills eventually, I've heard it just takes about a 1000+ hours in all due to things getting much more time consuming after the soft level cap, so I guess after a point all characters will have some proficiency in any guild they come across.

 

I haven't played this game and don't plan to, but I did witness tens of minutes of gameplay this weekend.

Spoiler

Giants herding mammoths is pretty cool.

At least Smuel was there to put him in his place.

 

You said that people who haven't played TES are not serious about PC gaming...that is an extremely fanboy-ish and relativist thing to say. Maybe it is to you, but definitely not to the majority of people.

Well, it isn't. Arcanum is not part of a series that has been going on for 20 years. Nor is it nearly as well known as the TES series. So I don't get the comparison.

No.

Why don't you see it going anywhere fast? Is it because maybe they are throwing out all of the RPG elements and trying to make it more of an action adventure game?

Cop-out.

:lol:

I have GTA for this very same purpose.

Like I said...games can still make huge profits without eviscerating all of the RPG elements... DA:O, FO3, etc..

Source plz. Pretty sure Bioware, Obsidian, et al... the majority of their fans care about stats. The latter especially so.

Various other gameplay mechanics to quantify attributes = bunch of gimmicky replacements for a simple and easy-to-use character sheet. What do you suggest? The only thing I can think of is class-specific story-lines E.G. a mage being taught new spells by his master in some sort of questline but I don't see any RPG devs working on something like that, though it would be pretty cool. The only alternative is starting out as a master mage with all these powerful spells and then it is not even an RPG anymore. Mage is just an example, same goes for warrior, rogue, priest, whatever.

Huh? You realize PC games have been using character sheets for 10+ years now, right? How does that make them the "exact same game"?

Dick around with numbers? You seem to think that working on a character sheet consists of derivative calculus. It doesn't. If you want your character to be stronger, you add your points to strength. If you want him to be a smooth talker, you throw those points on persuasion. It's a very simple concept.

Never played a P&P in my life nor have I ever wanted to. It has nothing to do with this conversation.

More nonsense. Expecting an RPG to have stats is not a "hardcore" demand. It's simply the thing that gives the game its re-playability and what makes your character either a MAGE, or a ROGUE, or a WARRIOR and not just a master-of-all-trades like you have in Oblivion. "I'm the master of all the guilds! ololol what fun!"

I find it funny that you mention FedEx quests in your defense of TES. Delicious irony.

Edit: The constant comparisons to P&P nerds is something I find extremely ridiculous, coming from a TES fan. The common stereotype of P&P'ers is that they want to roleplay themselves as awesome god-like figures to escape from the reality of their lives...which is something that Oblivion has in spades.

 

Muro.