What is anime?

I think I did see your old sig (and new) but had no idea what it meant. I suppose that means I've failed some kind of anime test. Oh well, I'll cope.

I suppose I crossed that line Calis was talking about. I should have paid it more attention.

I wish I had some yellow paint to restrict what people could say about MY interests. As it is, people can pretty much offer any opinion they like and it doesn't matter how much of a fanatic I am, it doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

 

anime

Well, disney animation movies in western world are thought to be drawn with highest skills. So comparing mononoke style with disney i meant the quality of animation.

 

disney only makes theatrical productions so they are not released if not perfect. if all anime series were made like that, it would take ages to make, a season is usually 26 episodes that last 22 minutes. how about 2nd seasons? and so on. also comparing anime to any other tv based cartoons, which is the best quality wise? It's almost a retorical question, since most people compare anime tv series to multi million dollar disney productions, they just prove they are "crossing the line" without any research into the subject, but since you compared it well. You are forgiven :razz:

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Iyaan-na Kanji Nigecha dame da
I'm gonna dance on your grave

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jinxed on 2001-11-15 22:57 ]</font>

 

Well, for all of your good anime fans:

*starts throwing shit again* uke:

And for the same people: It's sad that you take someone's opinion about a cartoon and take it as the worst that could be done to you... Really...so I said anime sucks, and that alot of it is drawn outside of Japan...of course you can call it whatever you want but it looks exectly the same. I know that mononoke is a japanese cartoon. And trully, it's a piece of art, not because it is an anime though... I think if disney drew it, it wouldnt lose anything/much... All that stupid blood and gore you are so hungry for is total bullshit... It's not anything close to real...how can you possibly get to like anything because it has huge red blobs all over the screen? Most people run away screaming when they see a broken bone...so I guess that's for people like that isn't it??? And you grow to love it so much because there's nothing else for you in the world?.. dull...

And that is what accountancy does to people. :grin:

 

I could say that if scientists breed/clone you they would do as good as who ever spawned you.
edit: byt the way I will add something that aparently you know nothing about, STYLE in drawings, it's everything, every anime studio has their own style, Ghibli, Gainax, Clamp, Production I.G. And so on. They all have different styles that make them very original, and also mostly they cooperate to make characters in every anime different in style, which is the cherry on top. But as for Studio Ghibli, I haven't seen them cooperate with anyone, and their style of drawings is VERY different from all the other artist. Compare that to Disney and you will notice that they would be never able to produce anime, 'cause disney style is TOTALLY
different, if you can't see it I can't help you with your narrow mind.
_________________
Iyaan-na Kanji Nigecha dame da
I'm gonna dance on your grave

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jinxed on 2001-11-15 23:32 ]</font>

 

Didn't get any of that...

 

you mean the my edit or the original? I can't help you really. I guess you had to many bmx bumps to the head apart from hurting your fingers.

 

Disney DO make cartoons that are not movies. Ever heard of Mickey Mouse? Donald Duck? They all started out in Short cartoons. I'm not sure if they're still making those, though, so it's no use to your animation comparison.

Ones that ARE of some use include (I think) Gargoyles and Duck Tales (do I sound like a Disney kid? I'm not). These cartoons are produced as TV series.

When you say "comparison" do you mean on quality or style? If quality, then I have to say the variance between anime productions is at least as great as the variance between anime and Disney. I'd put Disney at the same level as the best quality anime.

So far, all the talk about production quality has been saying "Disney" and "Anime Studio" as if they're black boxes. It might be worth considering the actual processes that affect quality, which include the involvement of real people. Some questions arising might be:

- Do the artists of Disney animations take less pride in their work then anime artists?
- Does Disney recruit a lower standard of animation artists?
- Does Disney have a worse QA department?
- Are the Japanese as a nation inherently better at animation that Americans?

If you're comparing style, then I'd say subjectivity is the main factor. The question "Which is better?" becomes "Which do you prefer?" Some questions:

- Am I letting my own preferences narrow my mind against the value of someone else's tastes?
- Can it hurt me if someone else prefers something I do not?
- Is anime in any aspect lessened or degraded by someone expressing distaste for it on an Arcanum forum?
- Is my aggressively defensive posture justified?

Once all these things have been considered, are unfortunately left with a few extra questions:

- Am I an obese policeman with an inflated ego?
- Am I being pedantic on a light entertainment forum?
- Does anybody care what the whiney Fatman thinks?

 

if theres tentacles and 8 year old schoopl girls then its hentai

 

they haven't made any of those for over 10 years....

true enough, although thye haven't been produced for a long time, and gargoyles may even be published by disney, but definetly not disney made.

lol! all the disney I've seen (alot wehn I was a kid) show any flaws that you say anime has like the amount of frames on mouths. As the the level of animation, I've SEEN Disney
series. YOU haven't seen almost any anime tv series. As far as drawing goes, it takes alot more skill and patience to draw a real life anime than a bunch of ducks. the sheer level of the graphics sophistication is enough.

1. maybe they don't that doesn't change the fact that 99% of disneys work is aimed at little kiddies, so the jokes and level is not something to be proud of at a mature level
2. They do not, as I said it only makes theatrical productions which include more money than everyone put together has on their bank accounts on this forum
3. I don't know I don't care about disney that much
4. It's just natural that some nations are better in things than others. on the margin,
since you don't know, the japanese use chopsticks all their lives which improves hand coordination ALOT.

1. I don't know I'm not a shrink
2. that depends, how he expresses it (points at loo)
3. being an Otaku, I would say yes, It's my own anime pride (call me crazy)
4. I would say we are all intelligent people with different genes from different cultures so it's only natural we dissagre on things and try at a contest of arguments

well I leave these to be answered by someone else. like Milo's neighbor

_________________
Iyaan-na Kanji Nigecha dame da
I'm gonna dance on your grave

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jinxed on 2001-11-16 09:48 ]</font>

 

Just a few bickering points ...

I have seen A LOT of anime series. Most of the ones you named in your earlier posts. Are you really trying to say that because my opinion differs from yours I must have less knowledge?

Real life? Which of the series you named earlier is about real life?

If you mean it's easier to draw ducks than humans, I don't really see how. Also, both Disney and anime have their fair share of other things to draw (aeroplanes, buildings, etc).

1. You may not like what I am about to say, so close your eyes. From my perspective, a lot of anime is aimed at little kids. Sailor Moon, Tenchi, etc.
2. Agreed. :smile:
3. Quality control has direct relevance to discussions about quality, whether you care or not.
4. Supposition and speculation based upon potentially unhelpful cultural stereotyping.

1. You don't need to be a shrink to be self-aware
2. Agreed (points at himself) :smile:
3. Maybe I didn't communicate my point well enough the first time. Perhaps I should have said "If I say anime is shit, does that make it shit?"
4. Agreed :smile:

Yes, me. Those last three questions were an attempt at self-mockery. I was pointing out that I have an inflated ego, I'm being inappropriately pedantic and that the effort I am putting into expressing my opinion probably doesn't match the interest the House of Lords users have in it.

 

well, you cannot say all history books are boring untill you read them all...

Love Hina, Kare Kano. Neo is more about life than you think it is, yes it's about robot fights aswell, but ultimately, it's about what the human race is evolving and striving for.

yes. look, in disney the drawings are for kids, ever seen a kids drawing or story book?
see how and with what style normal things like cars are potrayed there. disney has a strict method drawing for kids. in it's past tv series it had 40% less detail REALLY. and their style is very "bubbly". and usually the main characters take alot more time to make, but since their ducks, who's gonna care if they look alittle different than supposed to? Who's gonna care? Well with humans it's alittle different.

Sailor Moon was an anime for kids when it was realesed, it was aimend at a specific age
and the kids who started wathcing it continued year on, and grew up with the characters, they seen how they got from elementary school untill finishing high school, so it was planned from the start to be a "growing up with you cartoon" and the level and jokes at the end is pretty mature

it's a fact, not speculation that if you train a body part your whole life, your gonna have it alot more efficient.

the buttom line is that, the Japanese take alot more time to perfect everything and make thins work like they should be. i.e. Final Fantasy. All renders in american games skip, have 16 bit colors and are recorden in a meansly 640 resolution, the games have bugs, they crash and are not optimised enough graphically. with the Japanese it's against their beliefs to realese crap, onto the market.

 

Wow - this is a marathon.

I do not agree. I believe inductive logic is still logic, and that taste can be based upon the general as well as the specific. If I taste one orange and do not like it, I may assume it could have been a bad orange, but it is not necessary for me to taste all oranges to know I do not like them, or even to make generalised comments about oranges.

I think you're using a double standard if you do not see that these comments also apply to Disney. All narrative has the potential for subtext/social commentary and all events offer the potential for learning.

Some Disney looks more realistic to me than a lot of anime. Maybe real world objects are 'bubbly' when abstracted in a certain way.

I would imagine the creators of that particular series would have taken the view that their art has to look precisely as they want it to, rather than just saying "who cares, their only ducks?"

Their images need to convey a lot more than duckiness :grin:

This may show one of our fundamental differences of perspective. To me, high-school jokes are not a sign of maturity.

Agreed. Using chopsticks your whole life would definitely improve your chopstick control.

I'd rather judge the cases I am presented with on their merits than choose to believe that everything done by Japanese is perfect, and everything done by Americans is shoddy.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think we're going to have to agree to differ. I don't find your arguments convincing and you obviously are not convinced by mine.

 

noway neo has hundreds of bible and mythology references that are not understood by people who think disney is high level sophistication.

well, compare the theatrical productions and see, what is for kids, what is more for kids, the latest disney or Ghost in the shell? maybe akira... Youre illogical

In my opinion youre just wrong here. All disney is for kids, that goes to all disney related things like disney world disney chewing gum disney luchboxes, they all have bubbly mickey giving a okay or high five
that is just not taken seriously by 18 year olds. Me, I could watch disney for a laugh, but don't give me crap saying that the things discussed in Ghost in the shell, are at the same brain level as disney.

well, at finishing high school, youre 18 here. and I think at that age the things you discuss can be high level. You work your own opinions and you can even have a full time job. I think it can be pretty mature, comparing to Donald Duck and Pluto.

now don't prove to be an idiot. your'e saying that when shooting guns all your life you definetly improve your trigger pulling contraol? That's bullshit. there is one more use to chopsticks apart from dexterity excercise, it also prevents senility.

I did not say that everything is crap. No, I said that The Japanese are better in sophisticated things, they like to perfect everything even on a low budget. and the rest of the world? well Arcanum is proof. Fuck you Magnus, It's just a fucking pig you ass sucker!

>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think we're going to have to agree to differ. I don't find your arguments convincing and you obviously are not convinced by mine.
[/quote]

 

and it goes on ...

You make several references that seem to be equating something aimed at children as having poor quality animation. While I agree there is some correlation, there are plenty of adult shows with poor quality animation (eg. South Park) and some children's TV with high quality (Disney)

Like I said before, I see us as being fundamentally different in perspective here. To me, the anime I do not like (which does not include Ghost in the Shell, btw) has more in common with immaturity than maturity. Many of the issues they include (the issues that you - from what you have said - consider mature) are ones I would expect mature people to have resolved already.

I was trying to imply a point, rather than stating it explicitly. From your references to sophostication, etc, I had hoped you would get it. Since you did not, here's the explicit version:

I have no reason to believe that using chopsticks would improve the skills needed for creating animation more than using a knife and fork does in any significant manner.

I presume you are refering to hand-eye coordination, rather than the numerous other skills and talents require for producing animation, such as creativity, visualisation, colour sense, etc.

It seems to me that the people drawing animation would have highly honed skills in that department either way. Whether those skills were gained using chopsticks or at art college doesn't seem that important.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

After your reply, let's not talk about it anymore, hey? I don't want you to view me as an enemy, and I'm fed-up of being in the position of defending Disney, an organisation I feel deeply suspicious about.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sheriff Fatman on 2001-11-16 13:28 ]</font>

 

ok then but a couple of more things, I said using chopsticks improves your dex. It's alot harder to use them than a standard knife and fork. You really need skill to use them properly, (picturing millions of Chinese workers meddling with computer chips)
now these people also have it easyer, believe me there is a link between things that require very sophisticated finger movements and chopsticks. Anyway, the thing you said about maturity, And yes they do deal with immature things, but that's the whole point. to make a situation that is'nt supposed to happen, happen. It's funny to grown ups react to immature problems because it reveals just how much immature we all really are. We consider ourselves mature. That's crap. We all live through funny situations on all age levels, anime in most parts shows how to deal with it in even a more funny way. and in Ghost in the shell, it's also about spiritual and human/robot evolution. Last time I checked there has been no serious cyber punk related subjects in Disney, Just some goat speaking english...

 

True enough. Disney does Gibson would be quite amusing :wink:

I can see how I might be missing a level here. Maybe I haven't dug deep enough to find the profound ways that Sailor Moon and Tenchi deal with issues relating to me.

One small point I won't budge on (throw me a bone :wink, and am prepared to compromise my logic (even further) for - the link between chopsticks and anime quality.

My evidence this time - I am a chopstick user, but I have the artistic talent OF a chopstick (i.e. to make me produce a work of art, you'd have to dip me ink and scrape me across paper).

 

to use chopsticks it's definetly easyer than the fork. now it will take you alot more effort to use them, and thus pushing yourself on, you gain quick fingers, manual skills. This is works when staring from a young age. your fingers get used to having to do morem and more precise movements than when using a knife. That's all there is to it. Now when drawing, the better your technique of putting mind to material, the better the quality of the material.
an example, if someone is lifting heavy loads thru as a part of everyday young life, it's pretty aparent that his muscles are gonna be used to it. the same with fingers

 

That assumes no plateau for the impact of this skill on animation quality.

What I mean is, using your lifting metaphor: if I wanted a weight moved from one place to another, and someone can do it with no trouble, how would it benefit me having a stronger person ;it the weight?

If we extend this metaphor and say the weight actually required come kind of complex harness, another skill is introduced into the consideration. If the stronger person was unable to master the harness but the weaker person was, that person would be considered better at his job.

Relating this to animation ... I fully expect most people working as animation artists professionally to have suffcient manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination to produce high quality material (if they were required to copy a cell exactly, for instance). I also fully expect there to be a limit to how well this can be done (exact is exact, after all). When I consider the other skills important to the work, I come to the conclusion that using chopsticks is not likely to have a discernable impact on the animation industry.

I could be wrong.

At this point, I am little worried Saint Proverbius is going to use our thread as a joke :smile:

Also, it is starting to remind me of this little story my girlfriend forwarded me ...

Argument About Capital Of Australia Occurs 10 Feet From Encyclopedia
ORD, NEâ€â€￾ Brothers Jeff and Adam Clink spent 20 minutes fiercely debating the capital of Australia while standing 10 feet from the family's World Book encyclopedia Monday. "You're high," Jeff, 18, told Adam. "It's Sydney." Adam, who said he is "99.99 percent sure" that Melbourne is the capital, conceded that one city might be the capital of the Australian continent and the other the capital of the nation.

 

how about raving less rejected works and thus saving time? I mean if you don't make any mistakes thruout yer work it's faster better more efficient. and people that make mistakes just say FUCK IT! the best example is Intel. Amd has better techniques, has less rejects thus making the little price at the start, I heared for a long time 9/10 pentiums produced were busted meaning higher costs. and ultimatly dissolving into the shitcan company we have here. But I still think exercising your fingers makes you more efficient in precise moments.