Killing people & resurrecting them, without them hostile

All right now, so I'm playing Arcanum and I'm wondering how I can do the following:

1) Kill an NPC (for instance, a shopkeeper) without them knowing I'm responsible, so they die without being suspicious of me.

2) Then once they're dead I'll use Unlocking Cantrip to unlock stuff nearby and/or other things that they wouldn't approve of if they were alive, and since they're dead they won't notice.

3) After I'm done with Unlocking Cantrip or whatever else I do, I cast Resurrect on them, and they're not hostile at all.

Now I am using Drog Black Tooth's final patch (Unofficial Arcanum Patch 091225) on top of the standard 1.0.7.4 patch from Troika, and I know from the patch notes that some methods of attacking without being noticed no longer work. I'd like as many methods as possible please, whether they use magick, technology, or other items or techniques.

Ideas:
1) any types of explosives perhaps, like dynamite, grenades, etc?
2) maybe poison of some sort?
3) guns, such as the hushed revolver, maybe?
4) maybe I could be prowling or use invisibility or some other way of disguising/hiding myself?
5) maybe have a follower do the dirty work and they won't no it was my idea?
6) maybe some kinda magic spell could kill them without them knowing I did it?
7) maybe planting a hexed item on them might work?
8) maybe lay a trap for them?
9) maybe something that DOESN'T involve killing, like some means of making them unconscious for a few hours or getting them so drunk their perception goes down to 1 and they don't notice anything suspicious I do?

Anyway the point is, I want to kill an NPC in Arcanum but have them not know I did it, so I can resurrect them after I do some stuff in between they wouldn't approve of, and then have them not suspect I did anything bad at all. So if any of you know any way to do this, you could give me some hints. Is there more than one possible way to kill someone without them or anyone else knowing you did it? I'd like to know as many as possible to try them all out. It would make thievery easier, among other things... and since Unlocking Cantrip is permanent unlike using lockpicks, and since I can steal everything from their corpse at once much faster than pickpocketing everything, it could actually save a lot of time for my thief character. It would also be good if the method I used did not count it as a kill by me, since I don't want to get a bad reputation for killing folks. The whole point is to be stealthy so I can resurrect everyone afterwords and nobody suspects a thing since they don't know I did it. I think according to the patch notes, you used to be able to do this by planting lit dynamite on someone but that doesn't work anymore... so something that works with the 091225 Unofficial Arcanum Patch would be best. Also I'm interested in maybe just knocking them unconscious for a bit or getting them drunk and out of it, if that would keep them from noticing anything suspicious I do. Basically what I'm looking for is the ultimate secret to stealth and covert action in the world of Arcanum.

UPDATE:

OK I've tried a bunch of stuff, and I found one way to do it:

STEP 1) Start Prowling
STEP 2) Use Dynamite

Works like a charm! They're dead, then you can do whatever you want like Unlocking Cantrip to permanently unlock stuff, and afterward you can cast Resurrection on them and their Reaction towards you will probably actually be higher since you resurrected them.

Prowling + Dynamite = Awesomeness

There is a problem in the whole character points thing and in dynamite being a techie thing while Unlocking Cantrip is a magicky sorta thing, but who cares? In vanilla Arcanum without Drog's patch, you can use the Dark Helm to give yourself maxed out magick aptitude and still learn some techs. And if you're a mage, you can still get Sebastian as a follower, and supposedly he can make explosives, although I'm not sure if he can make dynamite... if he can't make dynamite at level 50 that's a real shame because dynamite is awesome. You could just be a techie and then the dynamite thing is way easier, but then you can only use Lockpicks or an Auto Skeleton Key to temporarily unlock stuff, and it will be locked again a day later. I suppose you can just destroy doors you don't want, but if you want continued access to the barrel or chest where a shopkeeper keeps their stuff, it's best to unlock it and not destroy the thing completely. But Unlocking Cantrip is awesome since it permanently unlocks stuff, so then you can steal stuff risk-free from containers you've already unlocked behind doors you've already unlocked, and steal the inventories of every shopkeeper, and sell them back to every shopkeeper, for unlimited money, and the shopkeepers don't suspect a thing, the fools! And with this little prowling+dynamite trick, you can kill any shopkeeper, use Unlocking Cantrip to unlock everything in the entire area, then do Resurrection on them. For techies, you use one of those "Restore Life" devices sold at herbologists, which are very heavy and expensive things but they are a techno way to resurrect folks if you aren't into magick.

Anyway if you're a cheater who uses things like Arcanum Edit 1.8.0, Virgil's cheat menu, Arcanum Cheat Mode Enabler, and Arcanum Follower Editor, none of these limitations matter, and you can have all your regular skills, tech skills, and magick skills maxed out along with your stats, and have a 100% magical aptitude while still being able to make anything technological such as dynamite. So that last paragraph is just about how to do this technique legit, for people who aren't cheaters. Along with those cheating programs, I also have the game patched with patch 1.0.7.4 from Troika, Drog Black Tooth's final patch from December 2009, the hi-res patch version 1.1a, the high quality townmap patch, the high quality music patch, all of the extra Arcanum modules, and the Dusty Dunes patch, along with an extra custom portrait I added for my character. I think most of those things can be downloaded either from Terra-Arcanum or from http://koti.mbnet.fi/ton_hur/files/Arcanum/ in case any of them are missing from this site.

2nd update:

Ahh I found another easier way: hexed items that do Damage Over Time, or DOT. One of them is Baneful Gauntlets, and apparently there are others but it seems Baneful Gauntlets are the most commonly used for robbing shopkeepers. The others I've found listed online besides Baneful Gauntlets are Hellfire Medallion, Ring of Shadows, Diseased Leather Armour, and Poisoned Plate. You either use pickpocket to plant this item on someone (guaranteed to work if you are the Pervert of Tarant, hehe), or you can drop it in front of them and some NPCs pick it up. Oh and a Serpentine Necklace or having 20 or more Constitution makes you immune to poison so it prevents poison DOT from working. So if an NPC has 20 Constitution, this 2nd method probably won't work since it relies on poison Damage Over Time, although apparently there are other types of Damage Over Time such as Fatigue and Fireflash, and probably others. Anyway, you plant this item on them or drop it in front of 'em and they pick it up. Then you wait for it to kill them, which might take awhile. After that, you can do whatever you want, then when you're done, time to resurrect them.

So that's TWO solutions to this problem... anybody find any others? It would be cool if someone found another way to kill NPCs in Arcanum that didn't turn the NPCs hostile. I might do some more experimenting.

 

In tarant , ive always used the wererat at the warehouse. all you need is unlocking the door to make the rat follow you, run from it until it no longer see you and then boom, it well attack the poor shopkeeper that youve led the rat to him. ( this works only in turn based mode just use it while the rat is following you , lead to the shop , close the turn based and then watch the miracle) note this can be applied against any MONSTER.

 

The tricks I know for robbering shopkeepers:

1) Shrouded Hills - Pickpocket Ritz's Key & you gain access to his store's chest.
2) Tarant's Magick Stores. Pickpocket Key(s) or sneak past when shopkeeper(s) go between bedrooms and counters. Stand in left corner in bedroom with high magic aptitude during Day & Unlock Cantrip the two chests.
3) Tarant - Stand in Tailor Shop during day, advance time until Tailor leaves shop in the evening, then unlock chest.
4) Various stores, such as Tailor shop in Blackroot & General Store in Stillwater - If the distance between Chest & Shopkeeper is great enough, wait until they leave their bedroom at the beginning of the day and slip into the bedroom before the door closes & locks. Alternate: When the outside door is locked, the bedroom door is unlocked; so use Unlock Cantrip on Outside Door, then walk into bedroom and advance time to morning so the shopkeeper leaves.

 

He cannot. No follower goes further than 4 schematics in a tech discipline.

If one would want to use explosives and skip the prowl part, he could use either a Time Bomb or Plastique. Neither of them cause NPCs to become hostile nor are kills performed with them registered by the game as caused by you.

As far as magick goes, one could use Dominate Will or Control Beast to take over the mind of some monster in some dungeon, teleport back to a city, place the monster in the shop and the rest of the party outside of it and cancel the mind controlling spell. The monster should attack and quite possibly kill the nearest NPC = the shopkeeper. Then it's just a matter of disposing of the monster and doing what you want before resurrecting the shopkeeper.

Same would sometimes work with Create Undead, seeing how cancelling the spell sometimes leaves the undead still animated and hostile. Since he's not under your control anymore, the shopkeeper wouldn't blame you for being killed by such a creature.

A different way to avoid battle is controlling the mind of a shopkeeper by magick or tech means, using the back off command (F5) and releasing him. He will hate you, curse you and refuse to talk, but won't attack no matter what you do.

 

Aak! I've managed to use a cursed item to kill and resurrect several shopkeepers without turning them hostile, but one of them got cloned / duplicated, namely Gaylin, the herbalist in Shrouded Hills! Now there are 2 Gaylins, and I've discovered that Gaylin is now impossible to get rid of since she got cloned! If I destroy one of the 2 clones, another clone comes back to replace it the next time I visit Shrouded Hills, and if I destroy both, then it goes back down to 1 clone the next time I visit Shrouded Hills! And then even if I get it back down to 1 Gaylin, if I kill her, there'll be a new clone of her the next time I visit Shrouded Hills! And if I kill one Gaylin but not the other when there are 2, the other one doesn't turn hostile at all! This is really bizarre! Now it is no longer possible to kill every single person in Shrouded Hills to turn it into a ghost town, because Gaylin will get cloned every time she dies! Is there any patch that fixes this cloning bug? I have the Christmas 2009 final UAP by Drog Black Tooth, which fixes almost all the bugs, yet the cloning bug is still not fixed. Is this bug hardwired into the game engine and impossible to fix or something? I have experimented with every possible means of disposing of the clones, and while I can get Gaylin down to 1 copy, it is impossible to get rid of her entirely.

 

The thing you mentioned there is quite an interesting little thingy. It's Troika's intended lesser evil, left there to prevent players from screwing their games altogether and mistakenly blocking off advancing with the main plot because of mindless slaughter.

Gaylin is one example of this, other being Raymond Pierce (Ashbury's spectacle merchant) and the ship merchant and his two half-ogre bodyguards in Black Root. Ship captains return to life as well, but they have a limited number of respawns.

There are also the bunnies outside Davit Wit's farm. Yes, the bunnies are definitely my favourite.

EDIT: Found some more pics in an old folder to share and rejoice.

 

Wow those respawning pics are awesome, thanks for sharing those! It's so funny to see the entire screen littered with corpses of clones of the same NPC... and Troika intended this respawning as a feature, not a bug... funny. The original Gaylin gave me the quest to find the N'Tala amulet so I wonder if I can get the N'Tala amulet for a different Gaylin that respawned. Probably, since the quest does not show up as botched in my logbook. Hmm, maybe Gaylin is important because later in the game she can tell you where Qintarra is, and I think that's part of the main quest. Anyway, good to see you playing the Polish version of the game, although the only language I know is English.

 

Just to be clear, that's just my theory, I don't have any quote of an important Troika staff member saying that or anything like that. It's just that it would be a strange coincidence if the only NPCs respawning like that would be the ones that are needed to push the main plot forwards in situations where it cannot be done with a note/diary/something of that nature, methinks.

Actually, all of those screenshots are several years old. I switched to the English version some year ago because of wanting to use the latest official and unofficial patches, to try out some mods & modules and to get accustomed with the original English dialogue lines and nomenclature and in the end decided to stay.

Though - I have to admit - I sometimes miss playing the game with the game world set in Polish. It's just more comfortable and familiar to experience a game where everyone uses and everything is described in the language you use in your day-to-day life.