Want successful children? Beat them

Unlike most people, I actually grew up in a situation where we went without. So maybe that explains why I'm not as spoilt as most of the people I see nowadays.

My boyfriend's mother told me a story about how she taught her eldest - my boyfriend - not to balance on the rail outside. She warned him many times that he might fall, but he kept on walking on it like a balance beam. One day she went outside and he was walking on the rail, facing away from her. She snuck up behind him, grabbed his shirt (she made the shirt, and knew exactly how strong the stitching and the cloth was) and pushed him off the edge. His nose was touching the limestone when she stopped gravity from doing what it should have done naturally.

He never did it again.

 

To be honest, the sight of a parent hitting a child is repulsive to me. I've been spanked just a few times, but my mother was hurt by doing this too - and I don't mean we would fight back I will never forget how hard for me it was to understand why my loving mum would want to hit me - and hell no, it didn't help me learn life lessons at all, it just caused a feeling of big disappointment and awareness of having disappointed someone at the same time, a terrible mixture. I know people who have been disciplined very, very hard and still don't know any discipline - unlike me and my brother. We always had a good contact with our parents, based on friend-like respect and trust, not some tribe hierarchy and it surely worked for us. If I was a parent, I couldn't bear the thought that my child obeys me because of fear.

 

I personally don't see how it hurts the parent to hit a child. I think beating kids per se is bad, but a slap to the rear end to remind them to behave isn't a problem. I can see not wanting to hit, but not any anguish. Now, people who beat their children have anger control issues. Having been a child who was hit (butt-hurt), I can say I turned out pretty well. I'll play mind games with my kids;
Instead of scolding them for playing with my table saw, I'll show them what happens when you put a piece of meat to the spinning blade.
Instead of hitting a child for attacking a sibling, I'll pull his mom's hair.
Just kidding. (not really)
I had a strange mix of parenting experience...my mom was the disciplinarian, my dad played mind games with me. I'll take on both roles, since I definitely want my kid to be raised well. Not saying that mom gets to sit back and watch, but she could to increase the mental effect of the punishment. If a kid is getting spanked and knows thier mom won't come to the rescue, they know something's up.

 

Using hyperbole to dress something up does not work effectively in real life, Orintil. No kid has ever sued their parent for taking the television away, because the kid does not own a television, nor is it necessary for a child's growth (and what 8 year old can sue, anyway?). Sometimes kids off themselves, but that is because they are jerkoffs. And why are they jerkoffs? Could be any number of reasons, but you've said yourself that the parents shape the behavior of the child.

If the punishment you are working doesn't apply to the kid, you choose a different punishment. Toys aren't the only way to do it. So you're concerned the kid will play with something else? Well, starving the kid is out due to your neglect argument, but you can always give them food they don't like. While the rest of the family eats his favorite meal while he watches.

Most of us probably heard our parents try to bargain with us to eat our vegetables. Ultimately, though, we would always get our yummy dessert. It's exactly because we are too weak-willed and sobby that we have been hitting our kids, because we can't bring ourselves to have them really suffer.

I mean, when I was a kid, I didn't start behaving when my parents spanked me. I generally got even by peeing in their shampoo or putting worms in their bed or sneaking out of my room late at night to hide the car keys. Anytime I was hit, I would well up with resentment and get even. Today, I'm doing fairly well and I'm not a total screw up, but all the best lessons I learned in life did not come as a result of being spanked. Indeed, all my most devious qualities resulted instead.

 

My mistake, he didn't sue, he just called 911. It was the girl in Quebec that sued her father for grounding her, and won.
As I pointed out above, you can take their toys away (or make them eat nasty food...not sure how much that helps really, but whatever) and that'll be enough to teach them the lesson. Sometimes that's not enough. Spanking your child should be a legally accepted method if nothing else works. There's times when even that isn't enough. In those cases I'm a bit lost as to a solution. Military school is one option if you can afford it. Then again, there are those who simply refuse to behave, regardless of the punishment.

We were totally different kids then. On the rare occasions I didn't behave, I was punished. Most often it wasn't a spanking, and it didn't have much affect on me, but when I did something *really* stupid like burning the carpet, I got my ass wooped hard and dragged to the local firehouse to see pictures of burnt children bodies. I never played with fire after that. Another spankable "crime" was lying. I also learned early on that if I was caught, admit it. I didn't try to lie my way through, as that simply made the punishment worse. It's a trait I still have today in the work force. When the fellow office workers screw up and try to hide it or pin it another worker, I'm flabbergasted at the behavior. One would think adults would be more adult-like. Then again, I also work in an office of young 20-ish graduates that still think it's feasable to call in sick every Friday, come in an hour late, take lunches and simply not return, and use the company vehicles to pick up friends.
I'm intent on any possible child of mine to understand that my home isn't a democracy in which he or she has an equal say. It's a totalitarian dictatorship. If I can ensure that they learn how to be responsible individuals without resorting to the iron hand, then all the better, but I won't dismiss the possibility that they may do something that warrants such an extreme.

 

My household had discipline, my father was in the defence force. I rarely ever was hit as a child becase the few times I was I learnt why I was out of line. I would be made to choose the belt that would be used and after the general crying and pain subsided the parent who administered the punishment would sit down with me and explain why my behaviour etc was wrong. Then we would talk it over as to why I did what I did and what I could of done instead of acting out. They would also remind me that they loved me and said I would understand one day why punishing me like that hurts them more than it hurts me.

I haven't got any children yet, well at least that I know about, my last trip to the UK may have changed that, however I do understand what my parents meant by that now. A few of my friend have children of their own and talking to them about how proud they are when their children do something for the first time etc, the occasion they do need to punish them, and I mean any type of punishment, a piece of them dies because in their mind its not just the child being punished, but themselves as well. The fact they need to punish the kid tells them they failed at preventing that behaiour, and to have to hurt or take something away from their own child, something they created, it cuts them deep.


Anyway I think kids should just get a good ramming, thats why we make them go to sunday school with the local priest right?

 

That was so touching, Zanza, you seem almost human now.

 

That should have been your quote.

 

You're the diet coke of evil.

 

So who here classifies as the Coke of evil? How about the Boags of Evil? (Sorry, people, but Boags is the best damn beer there is and I will brook no arguement. Yay for barmanship courses...) The Guinness of Evil? The Lemon Merange Pie of Evil?

Me, I'm the Apple Blackcurrant Juice of Evil. Sweet, refreshing, and terribly bad for your teeth.

 

Blech, Boags! No wonder you're bad for my teeth! I will admit it is somewhat superior to (some) of the cascade beers, but really. Try Toohey's Extra Dry or even ol' Colds. If you're a cider person, try Toohey's Extra Dry Seeds. I have been told it's good for a cider although to be fair it very nearly made me sick.

 

I'm surprised this hasn't been linked yet: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

 

I don't know who the Coke of evil would be, but I always assumed that Yuki was made up of random cats that walked across a keyboard and Arthgon was a one of those potato clocks that children make for a science fair that got forgotten in a closet and gained sentience.

 

Potato clock? I asume you was a tona fish, who was kept too long out of the fridge.

On topic: If you look at the succes of the Jackson 5, Michael Jackson, Beach boys, and Pink, then discipline would be the right way to succes. Only the most common problem with this, that after some time it will get normal to beat your children for no reason.

 

You're just strengthening my potato theory.

 

Wow. I only got one letter wrong, and you already think about a potato clock? It only strengthen my idea of you as a smelly tuna fart in a jar.

Now wouldn't it be better for this thread to get on topic again?

 

Couldn't you come up with a retort more original than that? This is a house of Lords, after all.

 

The original insult was,"It only strengthen my idea of you as a smelly tuna left out of the fridge."

But I guess that wasn't third grade enough.