Speaking out against child mutilation is now a hate crime.

Xz, in your own words:

....otherwise I'm calling bullshit.

Also,

I was circumcized and I've never had a problem with either of those things. Since my opinion is relative to my own experience and what extra information I've gleened over the years of my life (none of which makes any claim to the symptoms listed above) I again have to say bollocks. You'll be hard pressed to convince me that I would be better off if my cock had a fleshy sheath covering it, but maybe that's just because I've come all this way without one and know that I'm no worse off. And guess what, I don't even hold any suppressed resentment towards my parents for making the decision. I know they were doing what, in their minds, they thought was in my best interest.

And as for the retarded car analogy everyone's using... That's why they teach you in 1st grade math to "never add apples and oranges." It falls right in with that jumping-off-a-bridge line your mother uses when she feels the need lecture you about peer pressure. OMG my friends talked me into smoking. I guess that means I'm also stupid enough to let them talk me into taking a 50 ft plunge to my death or else I'm not cool.

The comparison of modding a car and modding an infants penis may seem right logically, but the context is way off. Tires on a car in no way = foreskin on a penis.

 

Were you circumcised as an infant or an adult? My procedure was done at birth, so I don't remember it. I've had some friends that were circumcised in their teen years, and they say nothing feels like it used to.
I honestly have to side with the kid on this one. They should be allowed to be asked, when they're old enough to understand, if they want their foreskin removed.

It reminds me too much of those body modifications people get for their dogs (cropped ears, bobbed tails)

 

[offTopic]

So this trend of the old guard coming back...
is it recent, or does this happen from time to time?
[/offTopic]

 

It happens from time to time. Sometimes they stay, sometimes they don't.

Oh, and one thing Rosie, if you feel like kicking up another CN nation we still have your Sovereignty House left standing

 

From everything I've read so far, it's better to be circumcised as an infant or not at all. By the time the child is old enough to make the choice for himself, it's no longer a valid choice. Am I glad I'm circumcised? Yes. Would I get circumcised at this point in my life if I wasn't already? No.

 

Another adding of $0.02:

As a further explanation of why Fish wanted Baby Doom circumcised, his own brother was not. However, in high school he was very self-conscious of the fact, due to a bitchy chick, and asked for the procedure to be done. It was painful, time-consuming, and generally not fun. Fish decided to spare his boy the same experience.

Of course there's no guarantee that Doom would have had the same feelings/desires. In fact, to all indications Doom looks like he's not going to give a flying fuck about anyone's opinion except Mommy's and that only so long as I don't get in his way. But as responsible parents we have to make decisions for our children from time to time. They may turn out to be mistakes, but we do them with the best intentions, and hope for the best.


ETA: I was keeping CN up and running for a bit, but I eventually missed the cut-off date. Life has been massively chaotic the past year; multiple Doom illnesses, deaths in the family, military bullshit, schooling, and familial squabbling. When I'm settled in my new city I'll take a look.

 

I completely agree. The hardest part to accept for each side of the argument is why that camp thinks the way they do. A lot of people believe circumcision is pointless mutilation and will strongly criticize the parents who make the decision for their newborns because they (the parents) believe the child can't make the decision themselves. Whether acknowledging it is, in fact, mutilation or not, they believe so strongly that what they are doing is the most beneficial thing for their child, to the point that they even think NOT going through with the circumcision would be failing the child as a parent. What better time is there to be circumcized? What if the parents were extremely negligent or even cruel enough to wait till the child was years older before making them get circumcized? That would be an honest tragedy.

On the other hand, I can also understand why people think it's a horrid thing to do to a baby. Because it's such a gruesome procedure and because it's common to consider babies such innocent beings, the whole concept is really difficult to swallow. So if you don't believe circumcision is necessary, it would be easy to view others who do as violent, mindless barbarians. However, it's very easy to criticize others of their decisions when you've never been in their situation to begin with. So until you have, it's imortant to be responsible of how you judge them. My wife and I continuously talked about whether to circumcize any sons we may ever have. We both agreed several times it was the right thing to do. I was circumcized and I turned out fine. With that knowledge and experience, I therefore think it acceptable for any future son of mine to be circumcized. There's been nothing to this day that's proven me wrong about my decision.

 

Getting things like that done is now illegal here in Australia. I've seen some very happy young Rottweilers as of late.

 

Why can't you? You can, if that's the culture you exist in (or you're a mass murderer that happens to like making lamp shades out of human skin...). You're taking your own personal, and limited, cultural attitude and applying it to everyone else. Not everyone lives like you, not everyone has the same values, not everyone was brought up to think like you. You're getting crazy over a piece of skin that has no value either way. If you're upset about the lack of choice, then think of it this way: all of life is limited to few choices to no choice. A floppy piece of skin that you don't remember isn't going to make any difference. Really dude, you wanna rant about chopping off sexual organs, you should be bitching about tribes in Africa.

 

I don't know much about Hamas society, but I'm willing to bet that it's not culturally acceptable to blow up children, if only for the fact that they'll need them when they're older to pump more terrorists out into the world. Anyway, I'm not claiming anything to be ok just because it's cultural. I'm saying it's difficult to accept or understand the reason behind something in a culture because you're not used to viewing it from within that society. So everyone's opinion is biased to some degree because of our own cultures we come from. Isn't that the whole reason discussions like these arise?

I don't know if that's what Orintil was trying to say or not. I tried paraphrasing out the smackoff undertone.

 

Wow, are we still discussing the removal of foreskins? I never figured that for a topic with much depth.

Some do it, some don't, each have their reasons. The practice has been around for thousands of years, and since it doesn't destroy the future happiness of the child, I say let it be. I'm not seeing the bone of contention here. It's not like we're talking about removing the eyelids or ears or scrotum. It's a flap of skin that, present or not, has no significant impact on the life of its owner. Any way you slice it, a dick is a dick, and it's going to find its way into something warm and wet whether it has a foreskin or not.

 

Dark Elf, do you mean to imply that there is some absolute standard by which all cultures can be judged?

 

Oh, and the newbie goes for the jugular! Haha, he's got you there DE.

I, on the other hand, have no qualms about pointing to the Bible as the standard by which the acceptability of all things can be judged. I need no other justification for the condemnation of certain cultural practices, nor do I need to search for some philosophical reason why others should adhere to my moral compass. Christianity FTW!

 

Why is freedom of speech something that should be available to all cultures?

JJ, are you serious when you say that the teachings of the Bible can and should be used to direct the behavior of all cultures?