Arcanum- Hit and Miss

I've just restarted Arcanum, not because I finished it but my Tech character turned out to be unplayable. I started over as a mage. Boy what a difference!

The game is heavily biased towards mages, tech characters don't stand a chance for several reasons.

1) A mage only has to put their points into Will Power and spells. Once a character has Harm, minor healing, and all the Conveyance spells all other spells are just fun perks.

2) A tech character must put points into Dex
for throwing, Per for firearms, Beauty for Haggling, INT if they want to make anything and then spend points in the appropriate skills and train those skills.

3) A mage only HAS to buy Fatigue Restore potions at the shops. They can then spend money on Armor, rings and necklaces to further increase their AC and DR.

4) A tech character has to buy bullets (components after they find the bullet schematic that is) A 5 gp a piece bullets get so expensive that they can rarely buy anything else! If they have money left over they then MUST by healing salve and fatigue restorers, then get whatever armor they can afford! If they can find grenades, any grenades, they can buy them too. I don't know if they show up later in the game but I never found any gun better then a Marksman Rifle.

5) Virgil has no problems healing a mage, if a mage ever needs healing that is. Once a tech character reaches 100% in Tech then Virgil has no chance in healing a PC. That won't stop Virgil from trying though!!! UGH!

6) Spells never miss, and never fail. Talking Harm and there fireball spell here, why use anything else. Guns miss and do pretty craptacular damage.

7) Sleeping outdoors or in inns won't heal your NPC's!?! Only you get healed. I'm soloing the adventure with the mage, don't need any NPC's why bother.

Sleeping indoors or even waiting cannot be done inside a dungeon. I wouldn't have a problem with this if the dungeons weren't a long, long hallway where backtracking can take a way to much time. Please change this, I grab coffee while my character just stands in the middle of the dungeon starring at the walls. I know it was done for realism, but jeez it gets real boring real quick.

9) Mages can't use trains, so they have to walk everywhere. Unless they have Teleport that is and that's better than the trains anyway!

I gave up my tech character while he was doing the Wheel Clan dungeon, dress in his underwear and punching things with his war guantlets. He had no healing potions left, no bullets and broke his primary weapon!

My mage has soloed everything and when in Black Root when I cleared out the Haunted House without a scratch on me I decided to write this.

What did I like?

NPC's are done well, really immersive world.
The art is great, I'd rather have painted characters then 3D anytime. I'm old school I suppose.
It is a fun game, I wouldn't play it otherwise. Just really disappointed more thought wasn't given to tech characters.

The character creation is great. Find the mix of tech and magic interesting, but botched.
I'll finish the game with my mage and try to work something out with another Tech character.

 

My tech character is fine. Way past Wheel Clan and still hasn't found anything too tricky (well, that Kree barbs gave him pause, but he got through it). My bro also plays one and is having the same deal.

Then again, we both play in turn-based mode *ducks the shit just about to be thrown*

I think it might be a mistake to think too much in terms of only having two types of characters - tech or mage.

I think the game mechanics are intended to encourage specialisation. My guy isn't a broad tech guy. He's a throwing-explosives guy. Also, he'd rather talk his way through things when he can, so his combat skill are dipped a little and his social skills boosted.

This means I have to put points into:

• dex/cha/int for stats
• persuasion/throwing for skills
• explosives for disciplines

I must admit, I do tend to fall back on my followers for some things, particularly Jayna Styles for healing. She can churn out healing salves and poison cures by the armload.

The biggest annoyance with my character that I would put in the "unfair" category is getting around the world map. Boats and trains are okay, but only go on specific routes. I was spitting chips when I went to the Tarant dock, talked to the Captain and selected Blackroot from the destinations he offered, only to be told "What??? This boat NEVER goes there!"

a) Why the hell not?
b) Why offer it as a choice, then?
c) How the hell am I supposed to get there quickly then, since the train doesn't allow my dog (even though the passenger in front of me took some kind of winged bloody demon on with him)?

Please don't tell me to walk. If I wanted to walk I wouldn't be complaining.

 

Tech can be wonderful ...

My first character was a female half-orc diplo-tech. Eventually I realised that she had pretty good perception as well, so she decided to be able to *use* that tesla rod ... and became a firearms master.

I didn't finish the game with her (my RAID-0 died) but she was having *no* problems. Chr 20, Int 20 ... lots of followers, but rarely needed them as by the time most enemies got within range they were gone.

You just have to play them differently. I've found that most tech characters benefit greatly from followers (if you're a tech, you *must* get Jayna, and should get Magnus).

Mages are more likely to be able to go it alone.

My current character is a halfling thrower with Int 2 ... Throwing 5 (currently expert) and Persuasion 4 (expert). I want to see if a dumb guy can get Persuasion Mastery, and whether persuasion can sometimes overcome lack of intelligence. Also Lockpick 5 (expert) - this gave the tech boost I needed to take Jayna.

 

A real dumb guy who noone can so "no" to? Sounds like you're making a Forrest Gump character :grin:

My throw-tech guy is a halfling also, and has expert persuasion and lockpick too.

Sounds like we're playing the same char except mine doesn't think life is like a box of chocolates.

 

Techies aren't weak. It's just damn hard to develop them properly in the beginning. I started the game 4 times before I got what I wanted. Lots of fun to lay a techie though. :smile:

 

You feel the same way I feel about tech and magic.

I firmly believe magic is way imbalanced in comparison to tech.

1) Harm. A spell that cannot be resisted, cost you 5 fatigue and can rip off 40 hps of damage with a magic aptitude of 100. WAY WAY too powerful, too cheap, too cheesy, been pointed out a million times. I point it out again.

2) Action points. This game goes completely nuts in how many action points you can eventually have. Add to this you have a variety of spells that increase your dex or speed, decrease the enemies speed and it is a wonder you could EVER lose. 20+ dex with 3rd spell of temporal college = GAME OVER MAN. GAME OVER! Congeal time (enemies never seem to resist it), Tempus Fugit (Major Overkill spell) and even stacking Agility of fire spells do nothing to help preserve balance and challenge.

3) Dominate will. Yeah, you dominate a shopkeeper and he will always hate you forever and ever right? Well pick a shopkeeper like one in Shrouded hills, Dominate him, Ask him to trade, get his key. Walk in his room, get anything you want from his chest. Tell him to stay there, Walk a screen away and turn off the dominate will spell. Rest a day so he gets new stuff, go back to him, he runs up to attack you, dominate will him again, repeat. So long as you can dominate will, it wont really matter if the guy hates you or not. Its a bug! They should be making saving throws against some spells and they NEVER seem to make it. It adds up to a lot of cheese!

You did a fine job of pointing out the tech people need more money just to buy equipment/supplies/schematic components, and pointed out the mage only really needs fatigue potions, so I won't even get into that.

There is also the issue that a mage can easily have his highest spells at lvl 15 if you build towards it. Most people start with 8 willpower, so 10 CP to use your highest spells, and 5 cp to get through a college to get them. After you have the spell, you don't need any other stats to make use of the spells.

The tech person has to do get to 19 int to use his highest schematics in a given field, has to buy 7 schematics vs the mage who buys 5 spells, and then has to have the appropriate stats and skills to utilize what he just made. Just make a cool gun? That means dex to fire it, str for the min. str, perception to inc. range and reduce range penalties, oh and firearm skill.

Then factor in just about any weapon you make has a 'chance' to hit, takes ammunition and does less damage per 'shot' than most spells.

Tech isn't totally worthless, and it is a lot of fun, but it is much much harder than the path of the magic using character.

 

I boaught truckloads of bullets and finished the game with more money than I could count with 20 int.
besides whats the fun playing the game without any challenge? If the game is a cakewalk with a mge than why even bother playing?

 

The money thing really isn't true. As a Techie you have access to an extra supply of money from building stuff and selling it.

Plus you can build you own bullets. The schematic is about the most commonly one I've seen being sold.

 

Isn't this a really old post?.. anyways I read the first part and wanna say that mages need IN too... ain't I good?

 

Yeah ok so money isn't really much of an issue, period.

It isn't like ANY character you make can't use his/her very first Fate Point and pickpocket the key from any npc shopkeeper in shrouded hills, walk right past them into their room, loot their chest and take their cash, and any items you may want, walk a screen away and rest for ONE day and go back and get more.

Repeat until rich. They never seem to notice your frequent trips past them into their room.

Yet another big FAT design flaw. Shopkeeper keys shouldn't be available to be stolen.

Picking the door locks and chest is another thing altogether. Though, the locks on npc shopkeeps doors and chests should be of the highest quality and the hardest to pick.

 

Yeah, it's really lame that you can rape shopkeeper's inventories right in front of their face and immediately sell all their own shit right back to them.

Maybe they could've made it so that if you steal too much of their inventory, then the store goes out of business and is unavailable to the player for a long time. Like alot more than 1 day.

 

Hm don't they say they don't buy stolen goods?

 

hmm i like playing tech i always put points in lockpick and take what i want from the lock box, also late in the game tech chars build some really cool shit like venigroth gaunlets and that gun you get with the venigroth rifle and sheetmetal what she called? ah well

 

Does it matter if they will buy the goods back or not when every time you walk a screen away and rest for 1 day they get a new pile of money in their chest?

It still blows my mind so many flaws (bugs if you will) of this type and nature made it past a) the people who code this game, b) QA and c) the beta testers.

I am personally much more forgiving of bugs that are caused by specific hardware related problems than I am with just sloppy design flaws and oversights.

Do I seem cranky?

 

sometimes magic isnt all that good either, i think it is best just building up on your skills

 

building up on skills?.. building what up on skills?..

 

ME TOO!

the other thing i dont really like is the fact that all of the non-linear play involves character creation, sure i mean you can play through the game as a techie or a mage but in the end its all the same, similar quests, the same ending, and even if there are multiple ways to solve a problem i.e. getting into bates's house, they're all scripted solutions that leave me feeling like all i did was figure out what the creators thought i should do in a specific situation, as opposed to actually figuring out a uniquee solution.

anyone looking for a game with completely enthralling non-linear single play should definitely checkl out elder scrolls III: morrowind and all of its expansions, it is the greatest role playing game ever created. i have NEVER played through it the same way twice, not even a similar way, and the graphics kick arcanums' ass.

Not that arcanum isnt an amazing game, its just a B minus where Morrowind is an A+

 

One, Arcanum is a CRPG while Morrowind is a FPS. Two, while I'm not nearly as anal about gravedigging as some other people around here, THIS IS GETTING FUCKING RIDICULOUS!!!!!! :x

 

Morrowind is not an FPS
:x
there is just as much skill development and such in Morrowind as there is in arcanum, though it may not be turn based all of your attacks are simulated so its your stats that determine whether or not you hit the target, and if you'd ever played the game youd realise that the character interaction is intimately in depth. :x
there are no levels, there are no guns, bows arrows and throwing weapons are the only projectiles and they are not the main focus, there are a bajillion stats and spell combinations, everything depends on interaction with NPCs in various villages. Just because it doesnt look like shit doesnt mean it cant be an rpg :x
:x
only someone who'd only seen screen shots of this game could make the accusation that Morrowind is a First Person Shooter.

:x
:x hooray for the ignorant. :x <--- look how angry i am

 

Actually, I got Morrowind the day it was released, and still play it along with its two expansions. I'm also one of the oldest active members at the official Elder Scrolls forums, and I'm certainly not alone there in thinking Morrowind is lacking in the roleplay department. Since I very recently spent a lot of time arguing about this very point, allow me simply to direct you to a relevant thread:

Linkie

It's mostly drool until LlamaGod pipes up.

BTW, Morrowind's dialogue system is crap, the character interaction borders on negligible, and the ENTIRE GAME is focused on leveling, killing things, and accumulating objects. It's less of an RPG than the BG games, which is quite the feat if you ask me.

Oh, DID I MENTION THAT EXTREME GRAVEDIGGING IS MORE ANNOYING THAN TYPING IN ALL CAPS.