The Great Slow Down Debate (commentary, not solution)

Thanks for the bloody unlabeled spoiler. Before you post such things in the future do place BIG spoiler notification.

 

Do you think we're really gonna go out to the streets and beat everyone associated with Sierra/Troika? Well I'm not and not cause I don't leave in US. I'm just letting off steam. Still I think there should be punishments for those programmers who screw up their jobs. Something like the players' right to state that they don't want any part of the 50$ for a game to be paid to people responsible for slowdowns. Unrealistic but it would be nice.

 

My whole point there was that SAYING it is ludicrous.

I know damn well that the people that did say it would not ACTUALLY do it.

You can certainly attribute the problems to Sierra pushing the game out the door too soon. Why do you think there was a patch already made the INSTANT that the game was released? It is the greedy bastard publishers that are causing us and the development teams to have migrain headaches.

*edit By the way, who forced you to buy the game? You didn't have to spend $50 to get it! If you don't like it, take it back for gods sake.
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I am awed by your abilities! Let the BLOOD FLOW!
Rojo
DIENET

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rojo on 2001-09-27 22:48 ]</font>

 

the naked guy happened to me to but I loaded and the save was okay. What got to me is the are you sure you wanna quit and the kites/dead bowman reaction crap.

 

My system exceeds the requirements, 'nuff said!!!

Of course I'm not advocating that people should go looking for employee's and beat the crap out of them, I'm just saying that if I'm out and about and I catch you slippin', you're gonna get mugged for an even 50.

Seriously though, if you've ever seen code, and the billions of lines of code needed for even the most basic pieces of software these days, you would know that there are going to be mistakes (bugs), that's just the way it is. I have sympathy for the creative and programming depts. because I know that they are at the mercy of the whims of the people who see nothing but money.

Every game I've ever owned has had one problem or another, and have in some way paid it "lip-service" of some kind, even if its just a post on a forum saying "We know there's a problem".

What makes me so hostile is that neither companies have even so much as acknowledged that this particular problem exists. Not on their websites, or on their sponsored forums. This creates a feeling of "being cheated" in the consumers, and no one likes being cheated.

Honestly, if either Troika or Sierra would, at the very least, say on one of their websites that "We know this problem exists", I would be more than willing to apologize for my hostile words, and would promise not beat the crap out of any of their employees.

On another point: Don't be so damn sensitive Rojo, you can't take guy's like me seriously, I was just venting steam. It's not rediculous to say what you feel, but it would be if I acted on those feelings.

 

This is my first bump here, so don't get to irrate with me. I wouldn't bitch if I didn't find this game fun in some way.

 

You also mentioned 'asenine'. BTW it spells 'asInine' - if you want to use words which aren't commonly spoken spell them properly at least. Not everyone here is a native speaker.

Back to the point however - how exactly do these statements of yours comply with your very own signature?

Isn't "Let the BLOOD FLOW" exactly the same?

And exactly when did I write that I don't like the game? I just hate slowdowns, the game iself is very good, though it could be the best RPG I ever played if but a few improvements were introduced.

 

Excuse me for a single misspelled word. Whoever said that English is my primary language? Toss my name into a search engine and see what you get.

My signature is a QUOTE of Loghaire when you deal a critical hit. Quite beside the point.

You did not say that you did not like the game. That was a general statement to anyone that has been bitching and threatening the well-being and pockets of the design team.

 

I also misspell when I write to forums so it's not something I flame people about. Unfortunately it happened with a word that is not commonly used thus making it hard to find in a dictionary. That's the only reason I mentioned it.

Sorry, wrong assumption based on the fact that you have stated that you're from USA and, as far as I know :wink: ,English is official language there.

Didn't know that, couldn't convince Loghaire to join me. Still you use this as your signature and few people would place something they consider ludicrous and asinine in their signature. Hence it's not beside the point.

They screwed thus they're to blame - plain and simple. Maybe it's Sierra's fault not Troika's - I don't really care.

It is my opinion that some legislation is due in software business which would prevent unfinished/untested products to hit the market. Imagine you buy a TV and can't check it unless you unpack it and turn it on. And by turning it on you agreed to terms set in EULA which you couldn't have even read before purchase. Then it occurs that this TV model has some important feature screwed. How would you feel about "well-being and pockets" of its manufacturers? TV, cars and software aren't that much different - they're are all products sold in shops for which you have to pay big amounts of money.

And I do realize that it's usually not possible to make a 100% bug-free program nowadays due to various hardware configurations and of course 'stable' Windows. However I can tolerate only small bugs, fixing of which is tweaking the prudct rather than reapiring it. Arcanum slowdowns and save crashes don't fall into small bug cathegory.

 

Dragoon, I think I'm developing a crush on you. Once again, just kidding.

The issue here Rojo is not my "asinine" threats or my "rediculous" remarks, the issue is that for many people this game has a MAJOR problem, and the assholes we bought it from haven't even deigned (I bet I mispelled that one) to acknowledge it.

To me this is a consumer rights issue, and as you can see, I am very passionate about consumer rights. Companies MUST treat their loyal customers with a lot more respect than this. It's like they are saying, straight to our faces, that they think we are a bunch of complete morons because they are postive we will take this kind of crap and keep coming back for more. You only get to sucker me once, 'cuz I'll never buy another product from either of these unethical companies.

WHY THE HELL CAN'T THEY AT LEAST SAY THAT THEY KNOW THIS FUCKING PROBLEM EXISTS!!!

Sorry, I wasn't yelling at you guys. I love you guys. Well, maybe respect is a better word.

By the way Rojo, please don't get the impression that I am offended, 'cuz I'm not. Your oppinion is your's, mine is mine, 'nuff said.

 

Most stores don't have a return policy, and most of us posting in this forum like the game despite it's flaws. But, come on, the graphics performance is murderously bad - and it can't be anything but poor programming because as the original poster has already said, I have run with more graphical complexity than Arcanum with no problems whatsoever.

Also, I don't think it's fair to blame Sierra for understating the MSR... the problems don't seem to be related to system speed or system specs... more evidence of poor programming.

This is a serious issue to me, it is _very_ annoying to have to watch characters run arcoss teh screen in stop motion - and there have been times when I lose control of the mouse cursor for a minute or two. It's just awful, I can't think of any other way to put it. And I really can't believe Troika was unaware of these issues... for every person claiming they don't have a problem with game speed I see 10 that say they do. That's a pretty large majority of users.

 

Hey Techdude, thanks for reading the original post, it makes me feel like you really care. Don't get jealous Dragoon (again, just kidding).

 

Maybe we'll organise people'e front for cunsumer rights :smile:

RightTurnClyde, why are you just kidding. You broke my heart :wink: I'm also kidding. I state it so that nobody takes sriously what I wrote.

I don't have time to write anyhting more so I'll post tomorrow.

Seeya all till Sunday.

 

Well now we know what happens when Clint Eastwood purchases a PC game. =)

But seriously, I have yet to experience the many horrifying problems folks have been complaining about here, and hopefuly I won't, but in agreement, Arcanum should've had several serious play throughs before reaching store shelves. The problems I have found are:

1. Slow downs/lock ups-Not severe mind you, in fact, the slow downs aren't as frequent or annoying for me to complain, but every once in awhile when it does slow down, there's a 50% chance that the game will lock up, so far it has only locked up on me once.

2. Character Reaction Bugs-Magnus refuses to rejoin my party as he suspects that I befriended the ring shop necromancers, long after he helped me kill them. Certain lines of needed dialogue have been left out of the game forcing me to kill innocent people to access areas that I would've otherwise requested access to.

None of the bugs however have been so bad that I can't continue on with the game, and sans the bugs, the game is THE best RPG that I have ever laid hands on (aside from Ultima Pagan).
I understand how folks may feel however, especialy those whose PC combination doesn't match up properly with Arcanum, as I have felt that way for years about Electronic Arts, I feel that the games now coming from Westwood and the company that makes the Ultima series, as well as others, have realy dropped in quality since teaming up with EA.
During the Ultima Ascension crisis, I had called EA asking if a version of the final Ultima installment was going to be released that was all patched up, I got laughed off the phone by two EA representitives (i got hung up on the first time and had to call back) who stated that there was absolutely nothing wrong Ultima Ascension. A third call back several days later finaly revealed that there were a few errors and that the blame was to go to Origin (or whatever company it was that made that past few Ultimas), but all the bouncing me around in denial had left me weary of buying EA games, unfortunately they have a monoply on alot the good ones, like the Firaxis/Sid Meier games, but if it at all possible, while shopping, I avoid the EA logo like a vampire avoids a cross. Either way, I now have Ascension, a great game, that is almost impossible to play due to slow downs and crashes galore and because I was subjected to Ascension and know what a bad game is, I find Arcanum's faults not to be so bad.

 

RightTurnClyde - you wrote that neither Sierra nor Troika ackowledged the bug. I guess you wrote to sierra (laughable) support. I wonder what answer did you get. None? Not even stupid usual "Reinstall, get latest drivers, etc. - we know it won't help but we won't admit we're too stupid tofix what we broke"?

One more thing that just came to my mind. I can't believe such a bug would go unnoticed during beta tests so I wonder who was the smartass that decided: "The game is expected so much that they'll buy it anyway. We'll be worrying later if at all."

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Nihil aliud scit necessitas quam vincere.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dragoon on 2001-09-30 13:38 ]</font>

 

So let's start a little poll in this thread, if you were forced to buy and RPG right now, and didn't have any, which would you buy?
Arcanum
Pool of Radiance
Ultima Ascension

Quite frankly it's Arcanum for me all the way, I have yet to encounter any serious, game-stopping bugs, sure Arcanum could've been tested and reworked a little better, but I still find it worth the price I paid.

Now POR on the other hand...

 

UA is 3D IIRC and it rather wouldn't run on my system. And I don't know anything about PoR.

 

So basically my Answer is Arcanum. But besides all the story/gameworld and such taking only lots of small bugs and terrible slowdown thing it's like choosing lesser evil.

 

When people start talking tech stuff, I go to sleep. How old are you again Dragoon?

 

I believe that the slowdown problem has been admitted by Troika in some form, since I read about the slowdown problem a couple days before purchasing the game. I actually believe its found in Sierra's FAQ. It has something to do with improper video memory management with video cards that have large amounts of on board memory (32Mb or greater). I get the slowdown on my main system (1.3Ghz AMD/512Mb DDRam/64Mb GeForce3) but not on my wife's computer (P3-800/512Mb SDRam/16Mb TNT2).

By "slowdown" I am describing how Arcanum will pause for 5 to 10 seconds for no apparent reason. This is _not_ the game loading a new section of map while displaying the stopwatch.

There is no fix for this problem _yet_.