Just Some Thoughts About Arcanum

Well... I just finished browsing the old threads in this part of the forum and reading some of the more interesting topics from ages passed.

Being that I'm in the middle of a game of Arcanum right now (well not literally right this moment, but you know what I mean) and these posts and discussions got me thinking about things...

So, nothing specific here, but anyway...

Does anyone find it kind of wrong that you can't take Ogdin off of the Isle of Despair with you? He's obviously not a murderous or ill-tempered individual. I doubt he ever fights much at all because any would-be evil-doers can see how big he is and they think twice of it.

I mean you take Thorvald off... and he did kill someone. Granted I don't think he intended to, but he wasn't exactly sorry for it either. That snobby Gnome certainly deserved a fat lip, but perhaps not a broken neck.

Anyway... as I said. If you talk with Ogdin enough it seems pretty clear that he is on the Isle of Despair simply because he got too smart and questioned being a slave to a Gnome. Yet all you do is agree his story is strange and then leave him to rot on the Isle.

I've contemplated ways of taking him off before... Say, using a potion of dominate will (that's not the name but I can't recall it right now), luring him off of the Island, prefferbly to a field just outside Ashurby, and then drugging him with some Anesthesizer while I haul-ass away before he wakes up. Sounds like quite the amusing mis-adventure to me.

Now two switch over to a different track for my train of thought...

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What is everyone's thoughts about Torian Kel and Z'an Al'urin? They both have negative alignments and won't follow a noble person (unless you're a persuasion Master, ofcourse) yet I don't really see anything evil about either of them. Z'an comes cross as being ashamed and disgusted with the Dark Elves. Granted, if you aren't an Elf she spits on you when you enter T'sen Ang, but it's not hard to get her to change her toon. Neither she nor Torian will complain if you roast babies on a spick, but at the same time I just can't immagine them ever approving of the whole-sale slaughter of innocents.

Torian seems like a very noble fighter. Perhaps his evil alignment comes from his habit of blindly following orders? I suppose he should have very low willpower though. Maybe it's just an inherited trait from being raised from the dead by the Derian Ka? I wonder alot about his background as a living human. He has 9 beauty and -1 strength (it can't go above 19)... Perhaps he was royalty? Or a Lord around Kree? I do wonder about the battle which he left his Elvin mistress for to go and die in.

Some might say that a man who at the end of the game decides to turn against his supperior and fight to defend Kerghan and his plans for mass-genocide is evil, but it is pretty clear that Torian's motives are purely self-less. Where-as he is free for now to walk around as though he were alive, free of the pain of death, he knows that thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of his comrades are trapped on this plain in eternal agony. Blind, deaf, and mute. A fate much-MUCH worse than death, or even un-death. In his desperation he wants to free them (or future victims of this curse) from such a horrible fate.

Needless to say... I like Torian alot. I modified his parameters so that he will join a good-alignmed person as I think making him only follow evil pc's was done purely for game-balance. I'm of the oppinion that his programmed behavoir in that regard is out of character. (the same with Z'an)

I'd go into more detail about Z'an, but it's already been said. I think it would have been nice if a good player could gradually turn Z'an's alignment into the positives. Open up a whole story-quest with her where you reform her ways and help her come to terms with her heritage. It might even be interesting if she and Raven started up some sort of friendship. Personally, I think there should have been ending slide that talked about Z'an taking over control of the Dark Elves and gradually working to stamp out their evil and hateful ways.

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Has anyone here used the Shocking Staff to a large degree? I don't know if mine is bugged or what, but without charges it does the normal damage + the `10-20 (or so) electrical damage. However if I have charges then almost every hit it will surround the target with a yellow thunderbolt (like the one you see if you hit someone with jolt) and kill them almost instantly. It suchs up alot of charges when it does this, but even the toughest enemies drop dead in a second or two. I've been using it alot recently... It almost seems like cheating. I first noticed it when I would build Shocking Staves and give them to Jayna... Somehow she could keep defeating Ore Golems and such faster than my Pyro-technic Axe-wielding followers... So I started using it myself and with only expert status (and three ranks) in Melee I can take down some of the toughest guards. Interesting.

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More to come I hope...

 

First off, dont ever post something so friggin long again! What, do you want me to develop cataracts?

Anyways, niceties aside, how do you know Ogdin didn't massacre a whole family of Gnomes? Every convict says they're innocent. "wasn't me boss, I was framed! But dont kfuc with me or I'll shive ya"
He was there for plot advancement (the ogre island subquest). Maybe he's innocent, I dunno. Now If he'd join up and put his skills to use in my private army of *ahem* Hero's (not blood-thirsty merc's), maybe I'd help him out.

What was the rest of it? Oh yeah, evil NPC's. I think the developers didn't understand what evil mofo's are supposed to act like. I mean, really, Kergan, what a panzy! I stomped the piss outta him no problem. The 'evil' paladins guarding the sword of ... (alzhimers must be kicking in, see what you've done!) were harder to kill than that weenie.
The evilest character I can remember is the necromancer near the cemetary, whats his face. You know the one, sounded like Virgil if he got kicked in the balls. And he was too big of a pussy to go in there and fight the zombies himself.

They should have hung around here for a while, then they know what evil looks like. Ah well, its a good game none the less.

 

Kergan wasn't evil, though. He was just tired of being alive. And he was insane. An elf living for 2000 years? ok. A human? That's got to drive you crazy. Besides, I think they wanted the evil NPC's to pale in comparison to what you, the player, could do in the game. You know, to make you feel really evil. I mean, Min Gorad; Sure, she helped to banish the BMC. I killed every city in Arcanum. I went from one side of the map to the other and killed everyone. EVERYONE. Beat that, ya Dark Elf pansy-ass bitch tit whore.

 

Well, it seems to me that Arcanum's actually a little biased toward do-gooder characters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's only a few evil minion-of-nataS quests in the whole game, but a million save-the-world ones. Even the evillest pirate bastard in the whole game, stinky pete wants to make amends and sit around singing koom-baa-ya.

I'll have to use the shocking staff on his ass when I see him! I've always used the pyro-axe before. I just started a new game because of this, as I've never tried to zap the unsuspecting before. :evil:

This time I intend to first save everybody and be the noble hero, and when everybody's like, "Oh Maximus, you saved the world, have my babies"; I'll be like, "On your knee's bitch and serve you new lord and master *evil laugh* " and start on a grossen-slaughter of all of Arcanum.
Maybe I'll even initiate the uber-secretive BMC riots.....

 

oh, just a quick question: what're the requirements to convincing the wheel clan to annex tarant? I've played with an evil dwarf, and I couldn't trigger it, nor I have heard it in the dialogs.

 

Uhhh... That'll be a little problematic.

 

Wait a minute, do I have to be an evil Dwarf to pull this off? What if I convert later in the game. What about an evil human or elf?

 

You have to be an evil dwarf. He won't talk to you unless you're a dwarf anyway.
I have to admit, I was very surprised the first time I had done it. Iwasoriginally going to kill him for the fun of killing him, but I decided to chat with him first, and...yeah. He killed Tarant for me.

 

Interesting. I knew that he said something when you first visited Kree, but I didn't know he said things about different parts of it. I'll have to try that.

As for Ogdin...

It seems pretty far-fetched to think that he's done anything than what he said he did. Why would he lie about it? If he were the type to slaughter Gnomish families then why would watching other convicted criminals (many of them probably real murderers) kill themselves bother him?

He'd make a good follower I think, perhaps he should have come in place of Chukka.

I agree that Arcanum is biased towards do-gooders. The real evil quests have un-fun consequences that involve entire towns attacking you. The plot gets boring when every city in Arcanum attacks you on-sight. It's one of the reasons I've never had a serious character provoke the Orcs to riot or assassinate Farad. Once those two things are done the game may as well be over.

 

I think Ogdin has found his niche on the island and is content to stay there. Why go back to a corrupt, gnome filled 'civilisation'?

 

I suppose that makes sense... Still though, seems like he'd like someplace with books more. Oh well, Arcanum is too opened ended for the programers to get everything in there. I think they knew that too. If they'd tried to add everything to the game that they'd wanted it would have taken another year to come out. There's so much left unfinished in there, yet so much that IS finished. Arcanum is much deeper and detailed than most other games.

Oh hell, and there were some other thoughts I had about Arcanum that I wanted to add today, but I now I can't remember what they were... Busy day to today.

 

I have to agree that the game is unbalanced towards good characters. Even when I want to be evil my alignement is positive. Unless I start random killing or talking with beggers a hundred times

 

Have you really tried? Evil isn't just running around and killing, it's speaking and feeling. Choose dialogue options that will make people hate you in the game.

 

Being an evil bitch is fun, goddammit. Especially once you reach the point in the game where you can basically screw everybody over.

And kicking the ever-living Shit (as opposed to normal Shit) out of Elder Joachim is WORTH. IT. *growl*

 

You have obviously never had the chance to talk to someone convicted of a serious crime.
Ogden may have not only slaughtered an entire Gnome family , but probably ate all the bits that had fallen off during his blood fueled ramage. It would not change his 'I'm innocent gov...honest. I never did nothing' and deep (not that you can go partically deep) within his brain he believes that he hasn't done anything wrong. They put on an act that they HAVE to believe is fact. Just because he smart for a 1/2 Ogre does not make him innocent.... Probably the underlying cause for the whole slaughter of poor innocent Gnomes.
Personally I think that he's done nothing wrong.
What's wrong with the whole sale slaughter of Gnomes anyway?

 

After having done the Half Ogre Island quest, I am inclined to believe Ogdin's story. Although I would leave him on the Island for his own protection.