Arcanum vs Baldur's Gate 2 (including ToB)?

wutang36

BG2 wins out for stability (Arcanum is buggy as a five dollar a night motel) and graphics but Arcanum wins out for storyline and that fact that the characters don't look ants. The theory of a large field of view that BG2 had is great but in application it felt like I was playing a RTS with only one action location at a time.

 

I have the 3rd edition players book but I'm still too lazy to read it. But there are some major changes you can notice with the naked eye. like the player stats now the races receive +2 and -2 adjustments. The absence of the 2 handed sword replaced bt a greatsowrd. and the stats bonuses look really weird
Acacia: Yeah I remember how big it was, I hered the new game is gonna be much bigger so that means as you said even more running around

 

Elder Scrools

I played Arena a actually enjoyed it. I remember being frustrated at times moving around cities but it didn't bother me so much that I coulnd enjoy the good parts of the game.

I tried Daggerfall but kept getting messed up by all the bugs it had. I also remember it being so open ended that it was hard to figure out what to do next. I eventually just got bored. It had a lot of potential but just didn't deliver. I thought about trying it again recently but my CD is scratched so it wont install.

I'm hoping the new Elder Scrools game doesn't have the same problems the the first 2 had. If the olnd problems are fixed and no new problems are added, it could be one of the best RPGs ever.

 

Something else that bugged me about Arena was the actual battle system, swinging the mouse in the direction you wanted to swing your sword, it was not implemented correctly and led to sloppy battles, I agree that game had the potential to be something in depth and involving, but too many things just drug it down. Notice how all the towns folk, taverns and inns all looked alike? There were alot of places you could run into to making the game more realistic, but there was usualy no purpose for these places leading to a major waste of time. I think the games was strongly designed to be used in conjunction with a strategy guide (if Prima even existed back then, that was many, many moons ago) it seemed that there was no way possible to follow along with even the games main quest without some documentation telling you which way to go and what was what.

 

PoR

Since I mentioned it in an earlier post, I have to give a quick review of Pool of Radiance.

First off, it's full of bugs. The worst bug for some people is that an install bug can wipe out your OS. Fortunatelly I havn't had that problem but the one I have had has got me thinking of returning the game. There is a same game bug that can cause your game to crash and corrupt your save game. I had been playing several hours worth without any problems when I had this crash. Now I have to replay at least an hour or two to catch up to where I was. There are many many other bugs but I'm sure you can learn more about them from the forum on the PoR official site.

PoR is NOT a true RPG. It's a dungeon crawl. Not that ther is anything wrong with dungeon crawls (I had fun with Diablo) but it can be dissapointing if you think it's going to be an actual RPG.

Combat is flawed. It uses a turn based combat mode which is kind of nice to see since it is more like playing a PnP RPG. The way it was implemented kindof sucks. First off, you cant make any attacks without entering combat mode. This sounds ok until you find out that this completely eliminates the element of suprise. It seems suprise is a random event in the game without any consideration to what you do. Several times I was able to sneak up on enemies, only to have them get first strikes on me when I tried to attack. Also, if you want to launch a fireball at some baddies while they're not looking, too bad. No offensive spells can be cast until you are in combat mode. There are also flaws with opportunity strikes. It seems the game doesn't follow the 3rd edition rules too well. The bad guys seem to gt unlimited attacks of opportunity on your characters. What this essentially means is that any offensive spells that require you to touch the bad guy won't usually work because you'll be interupted and possibly killed by an opportunity strike. I could go on, but for now will leave this part alone.

The other thing that gets me is that the game seems so slow. A lot of this has to do with the movement system and map. You have to keep the party on screen at all times. That means there is no scrolling anywhere on the map. There is a world map like most games have but no ability to set waypoints or use any other movement command to get anywhere quickly. You have to move everywhere from the main screen. This makes moving anywhere a magor chore. Along with that is the inability to have your thief scout ahead since the whole party has to stay on screen. I dont know of any reason why the developers decided to do this.

There are a lot more problems and complaints I could mention if I felt like writing several pages here. There are also a lot of good things about the game as well. Some of the game functions are great as well as some nice graphics and character animations. I would give some time to the good things, but with so many problems, it makes it near impossible to notice the good things.

There are 2 possible blessings that could change my opinion of this game. First, there are systems out there that havn't experienced any of the crash bugs I mentioned. That means that there is a way to fix it. The second blessing is that I'm sure most of the gameplay problems I mentioned can be fixed with a patch. If these problems are addressed quickly, my opinion of this game could change drastically.

If you are interesting in buying this game, I recommend waiting a while. There is a patch comming out but we dont know when, or what it will do. I'm hoping it will be out by the end of the week and will fix all the crash bugs. I'm also hoping there will be an announcement that a lot of the gameplay issues will be fixed within the next 2 or 3 weeks. If not, my copy is going right back to the store for a refund.

 

hmmmm

Try going to here:
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/re ... 96,00.html
Desslock's review of PoR2 @ Gamespot. He gave it 6.3/10, not exactly a masterpiece.

 

Gee, this apple tastes so much better than that orange. And I say that to almost everybody in this thread.

I will add this: I prefer the combat system, characters, and generally polished feel of BG2, and the interactive world, setting, and ability to effectively play an unmitigated bastard of Arcanum.

Yes, I'm a fence-riding pussy and quite proud of it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarathustra on 2001-10-02 08:26 ]</font>

 

*sigh*

I've never posted to anything, ever,till now. Seeing Saint dance around the facts makes me have to say some things. Take them for what there worth.
First, i'd like to state that i'm a fan of both games, albeit a rather frustrated one with arcanum. Both games are alot of fun for different reasons.
Arcanum offers an amazing range of possiblities, which at times leaves one wide eyed and wondering what the hell to do next. It was said in an earlier post that the game feels "too free", and i'd have to whole heartedly agree to that. at points it felt more like i was reading a book of short stories had pieces missing. BG2 (as well as the other infinity engine games) was more like reading a good book, with each subquest adding to the whole. The sub quests in arcanum just don't seem to add up together well.
Another thing about the two games is there user friendliness. I can only think of one time BG2 crashed for me in thh 400+ hours i've put into it. no choppy points (unless i had an outrageous amount of magic flying during combat), no bogging down at higher levels, it runs smooth. The interface is simple to use and the options of scripts makes the game easier to handle. (by the way, Ad&d has rules for henchmen and your charisma dictates the max number, but i think of henchmen as being equal to "redshirts" from star trek, BG2's npc are characters that are yours to control, but that have a personality distinctly there own.) Arcanum, on the other hand, crashed when i installed it, locked up in combat too many times to count, had numerous times when dialog was seriously buggy, and ran choppy whenever i went into a city. and that was the first 10 hours of play. The interface is rather ambigous(like buying a sword with your last coins only to find you aren't strong enough to use it properly), and like it was said, the manual is poorly laid out
*note to saint....would you know how to identify your items without having the spell if you hadn't played through and talked to the gypsie...probably not, it ought to be in the manual*
Both are fun games, But BG is a more polished and better presented than arcanum.

But they both kick Pool or radiances ass.

Errorcode

 

RE : Arcanum vs Baldur

this is a rather dumb if not stupid topic. I have played Arcanum and ALL of the IE games. I think Trokia did a OK job on this Industrialised RPG. Another thing you keep forgeting is what edtion the games were based off of. Arcanum is off the 3rd edtion, IE games are off the 2nd. For the MORONS that don't/haven't realized this there is a major difference in the 2 edtions there for a serious difference in the games. I for one would rather play BG1 instead of spending hrs of doing nothing on Arcanum >

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Szien on 2001-10-04 01:01 ]</font>

 

Dang, there are other books we read except for AD&D rule books.

 

RE : Arcanum vs Baldur

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Szien on 2001-10-04 01:16 ]</font>

 

well...

I think Arcanum has things you'll never find in BG2, but also many flaws that it will never be comparable with BG2. I'd prefer Arcanum, but that's my opinion.

 

Arc vs BG

Hmmm....
When I played BG or BG 2 I kept wanting to push forward and find out whats next, who to fight, what quest to take, what item to get, what Irenicus was doing to Imoen....

When I play Arcanum, all I can think of is how much better it could have been. If they had balanced the fighting, given it a good turn based system, fixed the bugs, eliminated the slowdown, maybe added some random encounters besides bears/wolves....
It -could- have been as good as Fallout 2, maybe even as good as Betrayal at Krondor . As it stands its simply a shadow of what it could have been.

First of, you don't have a new brother in BG 2. Irenicus isn't related to you, and you already knew Sarevok was your brother from BG 1. Secondly, -any- plot can be oversimplified to look stupid.

Shakespeare's Othello - Iago tells Othello his wife is cheating on him. Other man kills wife, kills Iago.

Fallout - Home needs water chip.

Arcanum - You are the chosen one. Go kill the bad guy.

See?

No it doesn't jus boil down to that. Maybe if the game had the same graphics, the same storyline, or the same amount of bugs it would boil down to that. But there are -many- different things you take in to account when comparing games.

Every game has rules. Those are the rules of D&D 2nd edition. Who decided that only the Goalkeeper can use his hands in Soccer? Why shouldn't my half-ogre use a gun in Arcanum? Its the same kind of thing

You've got an interesting point, but in Baldurs Gate you can pause the game to read the information. Missed something? Scroll back up and look it up.

In Arcanum, the little status window at the bottom only gives a few events, most of the info flashes on the screen so if you miss the info, too bad.

Perhaps not, but it gives the characters more depth. I -know- what Korgan the dwarf looks like in his Red Dragonscale Armor and dual wielding his 2 magic war-axes. I can tell from a crowd of people Imoen the mage/thief with her glowing elven chainmail.

Can you do that in Arcanum? Can you tell Virgil in his magic chainmail from any guard you see?

What exactly do they do? I don't understand this point.

1. Questionable...But you could be right.
2. Same here... Hit locational death animation. I have never encountered this in Arcanum. All monsters seem to have the same 'normal' death and 'critical death'. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
3. True
4. Personally I didn't notice this, but its probably true.

You can always tell someone is losing an argument when they start insulting the other person.

Both the BG games are some of the best selling PC games ever. Did they 'buy off' the customers too?

Since BG is based off 'rounds', when a character has already cast a spell they cannot cast another till the next round. So they stand idly by even if you give them the command to heal someone. Its annoying, Bioware shoudl have had some way to tell if a character cast a spell already that round. Anyway, in Baldurs Gate you at least have the option of - telling the character what to do or choosing what script to run to automate their activities with some control, or letting them do whatever they want. I hated the fact that you had no control over your followers in Arcanum. Even in fallout 2 you could talk to them and decide what they should do (eg. Run at the first sign of blood, only use Bursts when I'm not around etc). And I know some people will say "But its realistic". This is an RPG. Its not meant to be realistic, its meant to be fun. Of course, some people like the way control is done so I guess its personal preference.

One other thing - Why do so many people say the quests in BG are stupid and boring, but the quests in Arcanum are 'varied' and interesting? Barring a few, most of the quests I've done are simply FedEx's

I know this post sounds like a lot of BG 2 fanatiscism (It is one of my favorite games after all), but I just wanted to point out some of the errors in the constant bashing of it.


- Random





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Random on 2001-10-04 10:51 ]</font>

 

Actually..

Arcanum - You survive wreck, gnome gives you watch and tells you to find the owner because the great evil is coming. You may also be the "Living One" following a prophacy.

Fallout - You leave to find waterchip, but along the way you stumble upon a diabolical scheme to destroy humanity.

 

BG2: You're the one of several children of a dead god, kidnapped by someone who has to harness your power. You escape and fight back, eventually coming to terms with your heritage.

The whole point he was making is that you can quasi-summarize *any* plot in a single, stupid-sounding sentence. It doesn't prove any points.

 

What it ultimately comes down to is that BG2 and Arcanum set out to do completely different things. And they need to be played with different mind sets.

Objectively judged, BG2 does what it sets out to do (allow you to pretend to be the hero of an old-fashioned Forgotten Realms fantasy novel while engaging in light puzzle-solving and strategic combat), better than Arcanum (which wants to allow its players the ability to create and portray a unique identity in a reactive world). Of course, you could easily say that that's because Arcanum sets its goals signifigantly higher.

But, the point is, that if you dislike BG2, it's not due to any inherent flaw in the game. It's just that it wasn't designed for *you*. It was designed for all the bunches and bunches of people who *did* enjoy the game. On the other hand, lot's of what I dislike about Arcanum (which is the game I prefer, actually) is due to stupidity or oversight on the part of the designers.

 

You COULD just look at when the games were made. I am sure that the next AD&D game from Black Isle will incorperate a lot of new features, perhaps even some that are present in Arcanum. Why bother argueing about it anyway, if you like one of the games better, no-one is going to make you feel any differently about it are they??

 

What you COULD do is look at the dates of the topics/threads. Please do not dig up old useless threads.

 

YO MAMA LOO

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jinxed on 2002-03-02 13:54 ]</font>

 

How can you even compare?

Just because they are both crpg's it does not mean they are comparable to eachother. Entirely diferant set of rules differant rules and gameplay type. Now you may be able to compare Never Winter NIghts as AD&D 3rd edition is more point related as AD&D has ever been. But NWN is not out yet. With all due respects Baldurs gate is a great game And not at all linear. No more than Fallout or this game was. BG2 is even less linear. Both have really good story lines disregarding the hashed out TOB.

But this game offers something very new to the player ( though not unique ) long story short I cannot compare these at all. The only thing I would compare is music. As much as I appreciate music that fits the era this game is representing, I am not fond of the fact that there seems to be only 2 songs, one for adventureing in general and one combat song that does not feel like combat. In this area BG1 And fallout 2 I think rocked With a close following of MM7.