RPG Question

Well, I have been arguing with someone on another forum on a point. And since the people here are somewhat ecperts on the topic, I'll ask here...just for my peice of mind.

The topic was the best RPG's. Fallout was of course brought up in the disscussion. Several people brought up baulders gate (including me). This is when it got ugly....

...long story short, it was contested that D&D is the core concept of nearly every RPG thats been made in the last 20 years. It was also said that fallout used a simular system to D&D.

Others said the fallout was a completely original game. And that D&D was the worst in the RPG universe, and every other RPG was better (video game and P&P).

Can anyone help out on this?

 

Whoever said that has a very serious mental disorder. He should be either shot dead or locked away.

I only liked the first part of BG, the rest of the infinity engine games, such as the IWD series stink. And why? Because they are STORY DRIVEN, with an illusion of choices. I would call them adventure games with RPG elements.

Edit: I forgot about Planescape: Torment. That game had one of the most compelling and immersive stories ever created.

 

It was about P&P D&D, not bauders gate...refering to the fallout D&D comparison.

 

Answer this, to which D&D are you reffering to? And does Fallout PnP use the d20 system?

 

Have any one of you played TOSIII Morrowind? No debate. Best RPG ever.

 

Um, no. Morrowind was OK. Maybe best sunsets ever, but RPG? No. In my book, RPGs have good plot, good dialogue, good voice acting, worthwhile strategic combat, and preferably an open-ended story, not just different routes on sidequests.

I know Jinxed and some other folks think Baldur's Gate II stinks. Eh, I disagree. No, it wasn't a true RPG. Going up in levels does not an RPG make. But I liked the story and it was fun. And some of combats (dragons, esp.) were actually challenging. OK, yeah, the story wasn't open-ended, but it was well-done for an adventure, had good acting, great NPC interaction and never crashed on me.

DnD and SPECIAL are different but similar. They both have many of the same attibutes, but that's about where the similarity ends. Those attributes affect things differently, and skills are more emphasized in SPECIAL. I always felty like SPECIAL was a combo of DnD and the Wizardry video game system.

To say that DnD is bad just belies a plain lame fanboy prejudice against the old standard. Lotsa people now are sick of fantasy, and they somehow hate DnD for that. Others seem just to hate it like people hate Microsoft. Big and powerful so it must be bad. But the truth is (unlike Microsoft) DnD's age has given its developers the chance to iron out a lot of the problems with the system over the years. The other complaint is their book-profiteering, but really there's not a single major PnP RPG out there that doesn't enage in that sin. WhiteWolf, Shadowrun, RIFTS, and everybody else does book profiteering.

End pointless diatribe.

 

Maybe in your opinion it wasn't the most RP-ish RPG, it's still the best in my opinion.

 

I wouldn't have said anything if hadn't said "no debate." So now it's your opinion, huh? So if it's your opinion, I guess that means there's room for debate?

Man, you're what, 13? I'd expect you to be be wowed more by eye candy than story. That's just the way it works. when I was 13, I thought Heroes of the Lance was better than Wizardry 3 and Ultima basically because it was prettier. Now, of course, I was objectively wrong, but that's what I thought, and I had a right to an opinion. Just as you do now.

 

People have different oppinions about RPGs, so there is no "best."

If you're looking for a good story, go play some Final Fantasies or games like that. (Like Skies of Arcadia, which I'm really hooked on right now)

If you like a hack and slash, Diablo 2 is your choice.

If you like just playing the game, don't care about a storyline or anything...go find some kind of MMORPG. With that, you are able to do lots, interact with others and stuff like that.

And if you just want to play single player games and be interested in a story and have it so it's streched and not linear, then get Fallout or Morrowind.

See, there are a lot of different types of games that you can play. So don't say that there is a "best RPG" out there, because different people have different oppinions.

 

A lot of games are being lampooned into the RPG genre these days, and the meaning of it is being changed (and we'll see whether it's for better or worse in years to come). RPG = Role playing game. If you want to take it literally, pretty much every game fits under this definition (because you're always something or someone in a game, and you're playing it, so there you go) but a better interpretation is creating a character (which goes beyond statistical choices) in a given game, and then playing the game using that character and acting in a way (in game) that character would.

To be able to achieve that fully, the game has to offer a full range of options, and their attendant implementations. Morrowind does not do this. Combat is basic, dialogue even more so (speechcraft is an imitation of dialogue skills from other games), but on the other hand it has a pretty good magic system, excellent sound and graphics and a non-linear (if predictable and exploitable at times) storyline with plenty of side quests. Fallout doesn't have great graphics, but where Morrowind falls down, it tends to succeed. It isn't a perfect game though, because it can be completed comparitively quickly.

In other words, to declare something the 'best RPG' you have to consider how many options it gives you and how well those options are implemented (because those are the core of the role playing part) ahead of technical issues before declaring one game the best ever RPG.

 

I think the fact that I LOVE Arcanum means I don't care much about eye-candy. I mean, you gotta admit, Arcanum ain't too special in the graphical area, y'know what I'm sayin'?

 

Point taken.

As I said before, I wouldn't have said anything if you had just said "I like Morrowind." Hell, I like Morrowind. You said no debate. So I debated. Took the bait.

But I'm still confused, and here's why:

Morrowind's main draw really is the eye candy. Well, that and the fact that you can job across the continent in real time. But combat? No. Story? No. NPC interaction? No.

 

I don't play too many RPGs anymore, but I'd love to find one I can really enjoy. What I'm looking for is either one of two extremes: either tightly story-based, with an excellent, moving story and cast of characters, of course; or something insanelyt open-ended and adaptive. I've heard good things about both Morrowind and Planescape: Torment (which I'm probably more interested in) - could anyone make any reccomendations? Also, does any one know where I could get more info about Planescape PnP?

 

Morrowind is a FPS. It's fun, and I like it, but it is a FPS and that's it. Don't buy it expecting great story, character interaction, combat, dialogue.... On the other hand, the Game of the Year edition is only $30, which is a great deal should you end up loving it.

Of the two games you mentioned only Torment is an RPG, so, um, go with Torment. Great (moving!) story, dialogue, character development, everything. I really like http://mimir.net/ but I don't remember how much actual PnP info they have.... Like Planescape itself, the site is a bit on the weird side.

 

I recommend both of them. Planescape, I'd say, is better. It's both reasonably open ended and has a great story and characters. Truly engaging. Philosphical. Surreal. Good puzzles. I want it again, but I can't find it. Grrr...

Morrowind is a very cool game with great graphics and immersion. The story is OK, but poorly presented. It feels very open-ended, though it isn't truly so. Practice-based skill improvement works well, and is quite realistic. Perhaps too much so. A very common exploit is to set your character to run into a wall for 24 hours at a time to improve your athletics. Combat is lame.

 

I unfortunately stumbled across what appears to be the main plot twist in Torment, that...***SPOILER***...the player character is "The Transcendant(?) One", some uber-villian...***/SPOILER***...is this any great loss?

 

Morrowind an FPS? What the fuck is wrong with you?!

 

Are you going to tell me why it's not a FPS or are you just being a spammy whore again.

You run around in a world in first-person mode, hacking everything that moves. There's no character development. Dialogue sucks. NPCs are shallow photocopies of each other. There aren't any choices in the main quest, besides doing it or not doing it. Side quests are insanely moronic FedEx jobs involving taking item X to cave Y in the middle of fucking nowhere. What's that sound like to you? A roleplaying game or a brainless shooter? Just because you LIKE it doesn't make it an RPG. But please, feel free to explain why you consider it an RPG. Try to make it longer than one sentence. I know how incredibly fond on one-liners you are, but please, if you ever want to have a conversation here above your station, just humor me and put some effort into your posts.

Arguing with a 13-yr-old, this is where it gets you, talking to yourself because he can't string two words together.... :roll:

 

[sarcasm] I was under the impression that I was stating my opinion,but sice you pointed it out it's obvious I was being a spammy whore.[/sarcasm]