Smuel's good morning extravaganza

Wellll....

Spoiler

I voted Remain personally, I think that our bargaining position for more sovereignty in the EU was stronger if we decided to stay in, plus the fact that if we did leave Europe doesn't necessarily have to play ball with us so our financial situation could be in dire straights if we don't secure some access to the EU single market, and plus the fact that I'd say Scotland are in my mind 70% set to leave us now (possibly Northern Ireland), further decimating our economy. Also in the research sector of which I'm a part of, most of our funding comes from the EU, and sure maybe our "savings" from leaving the EU could be put back into research - but that's entirely dependent on whether a party thinks that's important enough to highlight in their manifesto next election versus say the NHS, or whatever. Finally I'll be finishing my PhD in a year and a few months, and I didn't want to face a massive recession and far fewer job offerings on the continent when I finally get in the world of work, but I guess the British public just didn't want me to be happy. Add in the fact we could have done something about non-EU immigrants years ago, but we haven't and didn't, and they still make up half of our immigrants - so I think the whole immigration thing was a bit of a straw man.

But of course all the racist old people and miserable northerners came out in their droves to get rid of the mucky foreigners, as well as the brain dead morons who solely think, "Fucking Polish/Hungarians/Romanians, coming over here - taking our jobs," despite the fact we don't have a problem with unemployment, so I'm not really seeing the issue. There's literally positive correlation graphs of age vs vote leave %, lack of education vs vote leave %, and proportion of unskilled workers vs vote leave % with a data point for each constituency - which says a lot. Then, equally to blame for leaving (because I don't think you can really blame an old person for racism, it's kind of their purpose in life), are all the young people who didn't turn out due to apathy - yet will be the first to bitch and moan when our economy's in the shit and they can't find any work. I know people who've said, "Well I wasn't educated enough on the issues, so I didn't feel confident enough," but what kind of excuse is that? It's not even like the general election where there a lot of factors and parties to weigh up, it was a yes or no question, jesus christ.

Of my two brothers, one's a moron who hasn't worked for 15 years and lives in rural England so you can guess how he voted. The other also voted Leave as I found out today, much to my displeasure, but he at least thought about it. He thinks that regardless of which way we vote we will still get access to the free market so long as we still allow for freedom of movement into and from the EU, but this way we get to keep our sovereignty. He thinks that the racist and right wing elements are far worse in countries like France and Germany (which from what I've seen is true), and so it's in those countries best interests to give us what we want so they can swiftly deal with their own internal euroskeptic struggles. He also thinks We're Kind of a Big Deal economically to the EU (again true, we are a massive contributor and we make a lot of money), and the EU is still going to want to be sending people our way for work, so again they should want to pally up for us. There was other stuff, about why Scotland won't actually leave and whatever, but I'm trying to keep this - ahem - succinct.

To me however, that's all pie in the sky. Of course complete legal autonomy, access to the single market, and governing our own spending is great in theory (and if I thought it was likely I would have voted Leave too) - but I really don't see the continent being so happy to deal with us when we've just took a piss in all of their damn faces, and in fact might want to be doubly punitive to discourage other EU countries from getting funny ideas. Further, if our government is going to still allow freedom of movement with the EU, than that's pretty damn dangerous considering the public voted on the basis of curbing immigration - so to not provide that would not be good. Even if everything does work according to the best case scenario, everyone has got stirred up over racial issues and cultural tensions and I think that's much worse for our society as a whole.

Beyond that, now I can't act all high ground to the Americans - which is really the biggest tragedy here - because before I could laugh at their support for a madman and general ridiculousness to curb immigration, but now we've acted just as generally ridiculous in order to curb immigration here. And further, it gives him fucking ammo, "Look at what those Britfags did to stop those funny coloreds and Eytalians entering their country, we should do it too. Because you know what - we're better than England, we got independence from goddamn England - we're fucking America!" Or words to that effect. Really I think with America's global presence, enabling Trump even in the slightest is worrying.

So to surmise, I'm not best pleased.

Good morning.

 

I was amused by the large number of European Google hits for "EU" and "Brexit" that occurred after the vote.
One would get the impression that there were a large number of voters that had little or no knowledge of what they were voting on.
As if they were just swept along to the polls by public furor and excitement.
Then decided to ask what the hell they voted on.

Good morning.

 

I have almost the same sentiments as you papa_dog, but instead I'd replace "amused by" with "horrified and disgusted with my fellow man over" in the first sentence.

Good morning.

 

The best and worst part of democracy is the people get to decide.

Good super late evening/very early morning.

 

Maybe with the UK out of the EU, Australia can take it's place.

We're in the Euro Vision contest after all.

 

Good Morning.

 

If the UK keeps access to the free trade area and free movement of labour, which would be the smart thing to do, then the only thing the Brexit camp will have achieved is to forfeit the UK's votes in the European Parliament. So they'll keep the immigrants, but lose any influence over which countries they come from. Probably not what anyone had in mind.

On the plus side, all those idiotic UKIP MEPs will lose their cushy salaries and benefits, so at least it's not all bad.

Good morning.

 

I think that's easier said than done though, the trouble many people who voted leave voted for different reasons, whereas remain pretty much had a singular purpose. Some wanted immigrants out, others wanted a return to total self-governance and democracy, and others thought it may improve our economy through trade deals - and obviously some people do want shades of all three, but not necessarily. A lot of these stances are opposed, as our main bargaining chip for continuing access to the single market is freedom of movement - and yet that will just piss off the people who didn't want more immigration.

Even in their own party, I think they'll be plenty of Conservatives wanting these really quite separate things - which I think will make a bit of a schism and lead to shaky leadership. Given that the immigration issue was the main selling point for many, many people, and that a lot of people voted leave both for this issue and in protest at never having their voice heard - to continue to allow freedom of movement and persist in not listening to these people who felt so disenfranchised to me is dangerous.

Seeing as there's literally still no firm plan being put into motion, only time will tell how these things are going to shake out. I guess that goes without saying, but I what I mean more is that I don't really think there's much of a way to predict anything at this stage.

Good morning.

 

Hey so I got to go vote on this. Weird right?

 

I don't have much of an opinion on the EU referendum, but I thought this article was interesting.

Good morning.

 

Some idiot Nigerian in our research group voted Leave, purely on the basis that he thought Turkey would be joining the EU and then the UK would get inundated with terrorists - he was voting "in our best interests". That was literally his only reason, he didn't do any research into any of the other issues, and his PhD finishes in less than a year and then he'll be heading home. I think between being profoundly Christian and having Boko Haram in his own country his rationality in general and about this particular issue is and was completely shit.

I honestly don't get why any Commonwealth people were allowed a say in the first place, when Europeans lacking British citizenship and yet having lived here in some cases for 10+ years didn't. I can even see why the Irish should be seeing as Northern Ireland is attached to you, but allowing Commonwealth residents to vote was really taking the piss especially when there were cases of some of them voting selfishly because they thought if we were out the EU it might tip the balance to favour more Commonwealth immigration.

Good morning.

 

Well

It's a funny old world, really.

Good morning.

 

I read that article as "The press incorrectly reports that Brexit voters are stupidly short-sighted. They are in fact stupidly nationalistic."

Case in point - Scotland very nearly voted to leave the UK last year, citing concerns over sovereignty - Scottish people don't want to be "ruled from London". But just now in the EU referendum they voted largely in favour of staying in the EU. So... being "ruled from Brussels" is okay? You have to conclude that the real explanation for this is simply that Scottish people don't like the English.

So yeah, most people don't care about whether economic and political union leads to greater prosperity and security, because that's big hand-wavy stuff that they don't quite understand. But they do want their particular prejudices to be reflected by their government, because that's something they can relate to. And if people are feeling disenfranchised by the way the world is going, and don't see any future for themselves in a tech-based globalised economy, then they've got nothing to lose by throwing a spanner in the works. If that happens to cause inconvenience for pampered establishment bigwigs then so much the better - it serves them right for thinking they're better than everyone else.

Good morning.

 

The elephant in the room is the Murdoch media.

His reasoning is simple: Downing Street is afraid of him, Brussels is not.

If 70% of people are both fucking stupid and fed bullshit, well, it really doesn't matter what their reasons are.

Good morning.

 

I should have known this was all the fault of Australians.

Good morning.

 

I would give this a like, but people's small-mindedness far too depressing to do so. It's not a very likeable truth.

Good morning.

 

I am all a-quiver for the federal election down under on the morrow, personally.

It's going to be a step to the left or else a jump to the right. *cue music* But I'm also cosmopolitan enough to be appropriately aghast at the whole V for Vendetta vibe going on all over the (haha) civilised world.

I just want to go on record now as saying I love the leader and my government is great.

Good morning.

 

I voted earlier in the week during work. Not wasting my Saturday standing in line listening to people I disagree with talk about things they don't understand.

 

And yet, here you are.

Good morning.

 

Boy you sure got me.