Who is that God person anyway?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dark Elf, Mar 23, 2007.

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  1. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    As we're currently in the mood for philosophical discourse and I'd love to see more of it, I'm taking the opportunity to instigate a religious debate. So, without further ado, let us depart into the world of frantic conflict, false claims, logical fallacies and really big words, shall we?

    Now, as the standard issue pompous opening vignette, the words of a Roman philosopher:


    What I want to exemplify by this quote is that belief in a higher power has existed for as long as there has been mankind. It is impossible to study history of ancient civilisations without understanding their religious beliefs, and more often than not, the religious conflicts that sparked/destroyed that civilisation. There is even archaeological evidence suggesting that the Neanderthals buried their dead as part of a religious ritual, meaning that religious practice is truly ancient.

    This, of course, doesn't prove or disprove anything. Nothing is more "right" because people started doing it a long time ago. Tradition itself cannot justify shit.

    Now, no matter what creed we confess to, whether we are atheist, agnostic or downright fundamentalist in our beliefs, there is no denying that religion has, and is, playing a major role in contemporary society. The human trait to argue the will and character of God has always been there, and quite frankly seen nearly everywhere. In Western Society, the conflict between Christians and Muslims, as well as the quarrel within the various branches of Christendom (BAC's vs Catholics, Liberal Theology vs Conservative Theology, Westboro Baptist Church vs Everyone Else, etc). Prominent is also the conflict between secular humanists and religious fundamentalists, exemplified by the controversy surrounding conflicting issues such as the Theory of Evolution, Intelligent Design and Creationism.

    Right, so we have 6 billion people who cannot decide on who God is, or if he/she/it/they even exist. Wonderful.

    The question then arises if we could ever hope to solve the God problem. Needless to say, there have been attempts to both prove and disprove the existence of God through the means of logic, yet I find it hard to truly believe in any of those arguments. Also, if the universe was created through divine means, then this entity must have been supernatural in nature, and thus above all logic.

    As for my own views, I don't know. Given my constant doubts on the matter I prefer to call myself agnostic, because the only thing I can accept is that we cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. All we could ever do is to believe, and currently I simply don't feel compelled to have faith in any one deity. I sometimes have this weird crackpot idea that there is a God, that can manifest themselves in different forms and shapes, but I seriously don't know if I believe in that either.

    Where the hell am I going with this?
     
  2. rosenshyne

    rosenshyne New Member

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    I'm obsessed with the show House. In one episode, a patient is brought in who heal people through touch. This teenage boy is a devout Christian, and he comes in with a brain tumor. House tries to disprove the existance of God through this boy. He keeps tabs of how many times he's right, and how many times God is right. Long story short, at the end of the episdoe he proves that the boy did not cure a woman's cancer just by touching her; he passed a strain of herpes to her that attacked the cancer in her body, thus sending the disease into relapse. He declares himself the winner, because scientific logic has identified how the woman was cured. His Christian colleague tells him it's a tie. Why? Because The boy had to have the right strain of herpes, he had to touch the woman in just the right way to spread the disease, and the disease then had to attack just the cancer, not everything else in her body.


    My point being: you cannot prove or disprove the existance of God for a reason. He wants you to accept him on faith. If we could prove he existed, then belief wouldn't be a choice. He keeps the books balanced so that the decision is always left to the individual.
     
  3. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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  4. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    You're going the way that many people tend to go.
    My friends are all deeply rooted in Christian upbringing;
    Some are catholic, others lutheran, still others are mormon (oddly enough, as I was typing out "mormon" I spelled "moron" instead...I just think mormons have a strange belief system).
    I was actually baptised presbytarian, though my father's catholic and my mother had a mixed christian/jewish upbringing. However, even having saidthat, I don't follow any one religion anymore. I just take a little from each "side" and put my own beliefs into it.
    Looking into each major religion, I found that they all have the same overall message, which is, "Be a good person. Pray. Be accepting, but do not be tempted."
    It's so easy to follow that advice I'm surprised to see churches and mosques and synagogues in as many places as I do. Honestly, I'm a person with a deep, nearly spiritual sense of what is right and what is wrong. I hate to say it, but I think that I've actually seen what many people would consider to be raw evil, or a demonic entity.
    They exist in every religion, except for those new age spins on witchcraft and wicca.
    Even followers of satanism say they don't necessarily follow a dark lord, but a beastial presence that pre-dates christian beliefs. To those people, satan is simply something that lets them give in to temptation. However, that being said, it's not a pre-christian ideology at all. In christian beliefs, that's exactly what satan lets you do, and how he lets you fall under his influence.
    But, let's take another look at the opposite end of the spectrum;
    Lucifer, Satan, The Morning Star, The Devil.
    When he was still working in heaven, he was a brilliant musical performer. His entire body was a musical instrument. He garnered such a following through his talents that he became proud, and felt that he needed to take things into his own hands, so God said "No" and sent him into hell, where he was either frozen from the waist down in a gigantic sea of ice, or chained to a mountain.
    As much as people try do deny it, the man downstairs is still working for God to punish sinners. He weeds out people with little faith and brings them to his neighborhood.
    The way I see it, people can only be saved if they have the strength of will to be saved. I'm sure that wherever we're going, or whomever we're going to meet at the end of the road, will say the same thing.
    However, that still doesn't keep me from not having a single defined religeous preference. I've dabbled in buddhism, I've studied the Norse Pantheon, I've even looked into the Freemasons (I may actually become a freemason later, they seem to know how things work).
    All I can say about God is that there is definitely something waiting for us when we go. Maybe in the times of rampant polytheism, God was more than one being. Regardless, we each need to find our own religious niche and stick to it. There's no one religion for everyone.
     
  5. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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    Freemasonry isn't a religion, it's more of a club.
     
  6. rosenshyne

    rosenshyne New Member

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    they've got a secret handshake, and everything.
     
  7. Xz

    Xz Monkey Admin Staff Member

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    Not so secret anymore now that you've told everybody, is it?
     
  8. Vyenna

    Vyenna New Member

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    Theory One: God = Bob Ross. He came to earth in the 80's to host a painting show, just for fun.
    Theory Two: Jesus = Bob Ross. Tired of waiting for the apocalypse, he returned to earth in the 80's to host a painting show, just for fun.
     
  9. rosenshyne

    rosenshyne New Member

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    i hate* the Happy Painter Guy. here's hoping his soul is reincarnated inside my hell-spawn.
     
  10. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    I liked him - and his happy little trees. Although...
    I couldn't help wondering if he wasn't on some happy little drugs.
     
  11. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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  12. rosenshyne

    rosenshyne New Member

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    this one time at band camp...


    he came on a three pm everyday, so we'd get really stoned, go to the tv room, turn off all the lights, and disolve into the darkness to the sound of his voice... some of the most stress-free moments of my life.


    and yes, i really went to band camp. twice.
     
  13. SirGarrickStout

    SirGarrickStout New Member

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    I totally agree.
     
  14. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    True, but they draw their origins from the Knights Templar. The whole "club" has foundations in islam, judaism, and christianity. I'm not so naive that I'd just drop a name and think noone else knew about it.
     
  15. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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  16. rosenshyne

    rosenshyne New Member

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    the Knights Templar were at war with Islam... maybe the Masons are J'islanists?
     
  17. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The Masons saw how all three religions seemed to speak the same message, though saw it through different eyes. The modern Masons allow men of any faith, so long as they believe in one supreme deity, to be members.
     
  18. Jungle Japes

    Jungle Japes Well-Known Member

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    The painted-over windows on the Freemason lodges have always made me terribly curious about what goes on in there.

    Anyway, what I've always wondered is how many Roman Catholics are really Christians. It seems to me that Catholicism (especially Roman Catholicism) is more about making a show of being 'religeous' and going through the motions than salvation by faith in Christ. And when you actually get into the doctrine, there's minimal substance and maximum bullshit, especially when the Pope gets involved.

    In order to reconcile the teachings of one 'infallible' Pope with the contradictory teachings of another 'infallible' Pope, Catholics teach the concept of 'Evolution of Doctrine,' which is total bullshit. God doesn't change because the beliefs of man change. God created man, man didn't create God.
     
  19. rosenshyne

    rosenshyne New Member

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    i have a friend who's catholic, and he explained it this way: Catholicism is a great faith, if you can ignore all the bullshit.
     
  20. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    It's the same thing I hear from my own Catholic friends. Though, I wonder if they can still be considered Catholic if they have their own spin on faith.
     
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