What the!

There's nothing worse than death.

 

Xz, there is little logic in your last statement. Just because I haven't shoved a stick in my eye doesn't mean I don't know that it isn't a good idea. Death is an end, and for some people the end of all things. For those people, I can imagine that existence on any level would be better than the void of nothingness.

 

You don't know that. And you can't know until you actually experience it. It might be a whole new beginning.

 

All I really meant is that some people may think that way. I certainly don't.

 

Somehow I think the void would be pleasant, like a blackout.

Actually, I can repudiate all of that. While we are very similar to animals, and take a lot fo behaviors from them, we also organize in far more complex societies. Every individual in the population has a niche they've carved out and been handed. They serve numerous roles (brother, friend, employee, inventor), and engage in a society with each other.

Morality cannot be gauged to nature, you can't, as you were basically saying, declare a survival instinct immoral, because morality doesn't apply to it. It's an instinct; morality applies mainly to social interactions. The basic position on personal freedom, most widely agreed on, is that you have the right to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, and so it is agreed that most action that doesn't involve or affect another indivual is not amoral.

Therefore, the question of morality is confined to social interactions, where we can do right or wrong by each other. In life, we take on assignments, and responsibilities, etc, we promise things, we fulfill roles in life. The Buddhist philosophy refers to it as dharma, an invidivual's sacred obligation to fulfill whatever roles that person is fit to in their society. It can be taken a step further to essentially mean, if you commit yourself to doing something, don't take half-measures, and kind of pussy out, and generally fuck around, but COMMIT to it, put your all into it, because it is the role you have to play in life. You can change what the role is, but for as long as you fill it, it has to be done.

You have an OBLIGATION to fulfill in life, you have to do whatever it is you choose to do. If you pay the bills, what would hapeen without you? If you robbed somebody, what would they have spent that money on if you hadn't? What wouldn't you have bought? You essentially have a duty to live, to fulfill those things that rely upon you.

The person trying to kill you is no better or worse than you, but it is right for you to kill him to protect yourself, because you have a moral obligation to your family and your dependants (term used loosely, for there are many forms and variations of dependency) to live, and this person is posing a threat to that. You have obligations you have to fulfill, and it would be immoral to allow yourself to be killed and therefore neglect that responsibility.

One thing I like about this philosophy, is that it reflects real life, in that both sides of a fight can be justified by it, because quite honestly, most of the fighting (arguing at least) you do will be with people with just as good of intentions as you, which is the real tragedy about fighting. Why, I usually would just as forget the whole fucking convention, except that everyone else seems for fucking fond of it.

 

I wasn't saying that instinct where immoral, I said you can't say that killing someone by survival instinct is immoral.

And Xz, If someone wants to die, because of any reason, you can commit suicide.

And when helping someone to commit suicide, you don't kill them, they are already dead inside of them.

 

So you like the idea of helping someone to kill themselves? Even though they have eyes moving, a heart pumping and a brain functioning, they are "dead inside of themselves'?
Get off the cock!

 

If they ask for help to kill themself?

If they outloud and clearly say "I do not wanna live anymore" but they can't kill themself for any reason?

You are not getting my point.

I would never kill someone being in coma or anything unless they had made it clear that they wouldn't wanna live that way. And doind something dosn't mean liking it.

 

It occurs to me that people must think you're a giant, fucking pussy in real life.

 

Murder is wrong. Killing is okay in certain instances:

1. Capital Punishment
2. Self Defence
3. War

As for assisted suicide, It's one thing to 'unplug' somebody, it's another to actively take their life. If somebody wants to be unplugged, then by all means, pull the damn plug. If they're not concious, it's for the next of kin to weigh the options.

 

War is essentially only the action of a nation, not an individual, so it's the leaders of the country who are guilty or innocent of the bloodshed, should it fail to meet the moral critereon for waging a war.

That said, that's an entirely moral point, and not enforced at all, really.

 

I'm not loved by everybody.

You have a very good point there, wich I can't nor want to oppose.

 

Throw some of your "symbolic colour" shit in there and I am sure you will find a way. To dig the whole a whole lot deeper that is.

 

Whats wrong with symbolics?

You think your avatar would be so cool if we gave you a white robe?

It's the colour that makes it.

 

Wobbler, god damn don't even mention making my robe white. Suddenly things would be a lot more......gay. I have my face concealed for a reason you know.

 

I think I should talk with DE or Vorak about it, maybe they CAN do it