Weapons with magically enhanced speed?

Dagger of Speed: 16(+4)
Staff of Xoranth: 8(+25)
Torian Kel's Ancestral Sword: 10(+20)

Anyone recalls anything else?

Don't be afraid to post, even if all you've got is a suspicion or a vague memory.

 

Doesnt the sword of airs speed increase with a higher MA?

In case you couldnt tell my apostrophe key isnt working for some reason.

 

Um, for your information, I suspected Azram's Star and tested it, and it's not.

Hope that helps, by the process of elimination and wasn't a complete waste of internets.

 

I doubt Dagger of Speed actually works. At least it does not increase character speed. Might increase attack speed though, I'm not perceptive enough to notice.

 

Fri Oct 29, 2010:

The Dagger of Speed works, but indeed in the way that it has a MA-dependent speed boost to the attack speed. That's the factor I'm asking about in this thread.

Nope, yet the association wasn't all that unfounded, seeing how it has a different rare magick related modifier, namely magickally lowered weight. It's quite quick by itself too, but it's a static factor rather than a MA-dependent one.



EDIT: Thu Nov 4, 2010:

I eventually came to a conclusion that the only way to be sure would be checking all magickal and tech weapons one by one for Speed (and, while I'm at it, MSR) adjustments dependable on MA/TA. Seeing how such a task makes gathering weapon data significantly longer while there's hardly a chance that even a single positive result will be found, I felt quite demotivated. Until...

As you probably guessed, there's a first success. Did you know that the custom Enchanted Sword Doc Roberts gives you has a (+2) MA-dependent speed bonus? Well, now you do!

 

Does the weapon speed displayed in the weapon window consider the magickal speed bonus or not? If it says 16 speed, is it already +4 included, or without it? Does +speed scale with magickal aptitude (I've checked daggers of speed with highly technological characters, it still said +4)?

Also, Muro, considering this is for your weapon chart, did you find any way to determine a weapon's magickal power available (MPA)?

I'd assume the formula is like so: Ax + B, where x is magickal aptitude of the character wielding the weapon, and A and B are arbitrary constant numbers that determine how the MPA scales with aptitude. Most magickal weapons I've noticed have a negative B, that is, slightly technological characters get some use out of them.

The question I wonder about is: how does the game handle partial MPA? Say, the weapon can get up to (+10), so that's 10 magickal milestones, at every 10% MPA.

So the weapon would get +1 at 10% MPA, and +2 at 20% MPA. What about 15%? What about 19%, 11%, 99%? Does it round up, down, or to the nearest whole number?

 

I was always under the impression MPA is 50% at 0 MA/TA, 100% at full MA, and 0% at full TA.

 

Less magic power is available from more powerful artifacts. So, at 0% MA/TA you get 50% from a Charmed Axe but much less (~15%) for an Arcane Axe.

Full power from magick or technological items seems to be about 60% MA and TA respectively. I measure full tech benefit by the Goggled Helmet +3 PE as a high-level tech effect. Not so sure about Arcane stuff.

 

Links:

My dwarf thrower with slight TA, 28%
Small Magick Robes, MPA = 22%
Charmed Chainmail, MPA = 0%
Enchanted Sword, MPA = 0%
Virgil, slight MA, 14%
Charmed Chainmail, MPA=76%
Enchanted Sword, MPA = 100%

The only weird thing I found out were the Small Magick Robes, which were ALSO 22% for Virgil. Dunno how to explain it, maybe because he can't wear them?

 

Indeed.

That's because you're looking at the description, which is static. It says that it has (+4 speed), the brackets meaning that it is a boost given depending on MA (just like damage for, say, charmed, magick, mystic or arcane weaponry). I've found six weapons with MA-dependent speed adjustments so far, but only the Dagger of Speed is kind enough to mention it in its description at all.

What you see is the end result. The displayed speed is the current one, meaning it is equal to initial speed + speed from apprentice training [if there is one] + Integer(MA x MA-dependent speed bonus [if there is one]). Seeing how in most cases the MA-dependent speed adjustment isn't mentioned in the description, the best way to find out if a weapon has one is checking its speed at MPA = 0% and MPA =100% and comparing. That's what I'm doing, anyway.

Truth be said, everything after the word "axe" is wrong. The way it really works is explained below.

That's true, but only for arcane gear, because their magick complexity equals 100 [more below].

Yes and no.

"Yes" part:

Each magickal item has a specific magick complexity. Let's take the already discussed Dagger of Speed for example. The Dagger's magick complexity is 10. This means that the weapon's MPA is 100% for magickal aptitude = [10] or more, 0% for tech aptitude = about [-10] or less and it rises more or less linearly from TA [-10] to MA [10]. This also means that all magick gear has a MPA of about 50% for a character with MA/TA = [0].

"No" part:

That which is behind the underlined words in the paragraph above.

Long story short, the game decides to make some rather unexpected and often illogical approximations when calculating MPA from MA.

Ideally, I wanted to include an interactive "magick/tech aptitude" cell in my database and include a formula calculating the exact MPA for each weapon individually, but seeing how the rules for the approximations seem hard to grasp and inconsistent for different complexities, creating such a formula may prove impossible, leaving me with the next best thing, namely an interactive "MPA" cell.

I would prefer the former, though, so I'm still working on it, but I'm not sure if success is within reach.

The game rounds the bonus down to the nearest integer. So in your example:
15% MPA = + 1,5 dmg rounded down = +1 dmg
11% MPA = + 1,1 dmg rounded down = +1 dmg
19% MPA = + 1,9 dmg rounded down = +1 dmg
99% MPA = + 9,9 dmg rounded down = +9 dmg

The explanation is quite simple - when an item is in an NPC's inventory, the game displays the NPC's MPA (and speed, if the item is a weapon) only if the item is equipped. If it's unequipped, the game displays the player's MPA (and speed), even though it's obviously not in his inventory.

In your case, the Small Magick Robes have a MPA of 22% not for Virgil but for you. Virgil's MPA won't be displayed unless he somehow manages to fit in that thing.

 

This is very strange. I would have assumed the MPA scales completely linearly, but seems like that wasn't the case...

Is there anything that could be extracted from .proto's? Perhaps something in there can determine the basis for scaling. Or do protos only contain magickal complexity of a weapon?

Oh yeah, speaking of complexity, I guess technological equipment has a complexity meter for adj. additional chance for failure?

In any case, a mod that allows one to freely modify one's MA/TA ingame on the fly would have been great. I was thinking it would be something along stackable equipment that adds +1MA or +1TA if it's in inventory. For example, a bullet would provide +1TA, and an arrow would give +1MA. With 100 arrows, you have 100 MA, and with 100 arrows AND 100 bullets, you have 0TA/MA because they balance each other out.

I am guessing this feature would require extensive engine modding, though, as only equipped items change stats. A shame.

 

ORIGINAL POST (FOR THERE IS AN EDIT LOWER, YOU SEE):

If you would ask me, what we're talking about is how it should work.

Sadly, things decide to work differently (and that's for complexity 25%, which has a very regular pattern. Why 4% every 2 MA/TA units instead of 2% every single MA/TA unit, for example? We might never know).

I'm not sure about protos, but if I'm not mistaken, in the World Editor weapons only have a complexity modifier and no pattern of scaling, so the scaling patterns seem to somehow get calculated exclusively from the complexity.

For that and for some special effects like the dexterity boost of the charged rings, yes.

It is in fact the same parameter, counting as magick complexity when it's a positive number and as tech complexity when it's a negative one.

I myself am using Virgil's Debug Menu to stack numerous CPs and change aptitude from +100 to 0 to -100. That and remembering that [1 spell = +5 apt], [2 techs = -11 apt] and [2 spells + 2 techs = -1 apt] is enough to do the trick, but the solution you're suggesting would make things easier, that's for sure.




EDIT SOME HOURS LATER:

Eureka! By mixing observation, deduction and trial & error I seem to have found the Aptitude -> MPA formula. This means the database will have an interactive Aptitude cell and formulas calculating each weapon's MPA individually after all. Yay!

The formula itself:

• 1. If Apt > Cplx, then MPA equals 100%
  2. If Apt < - Cplx, then MPA equals 0%
  3. If neither of the above is true, then MPA equals [ { 100% / ( 2 x Cplx ) } x ( Apt + Cplx ) ] rounded down twice: firstly to the nearest multiple of [ 100% / Cplx ] and secondly to the nearest full percent.

That's how the game works, yet truth be said, I see exactly zero reasons for that first rounding down to be there. What was the man behind that even thinking? All it does is force the MPA to act retarded and change every two aptitude units rather than every single one.

The result?

[BIG CHANGE] - [NO CHANGE] - [BIG CHANGE] - [NO CHANGE]

instead of

[SMALL CHANGE] - [SMALL CHANGE] - [SMALL CHANGE] - [SMALL CHANGE]

as I've already pointed out at the beginning of this post. Utter stupidity.