The Tempter of Fate

Discussion in 'Module Discussion' started by rroyo, Nov 15, 2009.

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  1. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    It's been pointed out by more than one person that the Tempter of Fate addition to the A:WIP is a massive potential cheat capable of ruining the fun of gameplay by allowing the player to level-up for a modest fee.
    This was not what was originally intended. I added the Tempter as a means of allowing a player to gain the necessary levels prior to going to the Void.

    Anyway, I think I've figured out how to make the Tempter available only to late-game players by simply turning off the figures and setting the site to be unmarked until the proper story-state is reached. For example: The player has been to Vendigroth.
    Turning off the NPCs will effectively cancel out the map-marking by Virgil or the Atlas of Arcanum because - No one's home!
    Those who choose to resist the temptation to have their maps marked won't be wasting their time checking out a seemingly-empty building.
    Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

    To make the Tempter usable again: A simple scripting tile placed where the PC cannot avoid stepping on it will trigger the toggle-on of the Tempter and his slaves as well as mark the place on the map.

    The question is: Where should this trigger be?
    The door of Nazrudin's place, across The Gateway to the Wastes, or deep inside Vendigroth?
     
  2. Alessandro_Monti

    Alessandro_Monti New Member

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    I must admit that I did not mind meeting the tempter of fate at first, because, after playing the game so many times, and after knowing how it feels like to have proper damage and aim, you feel frustrated when you throw that boomerang 5 times and it hits once and does 1-2 damage. But, it is a much better idea to make him available only late in the game.

    I think the door at Nasrudin's place is the best choice for a trigger tile, although you could also try placing one or more trigger tiles (is that possible?) where you find the Vendigroth device.

    Just a thought:
    Why not place the tempter of fate near the Ring of Brodgar - say he is a "friend" of Nasrudin, called there by him to help you. You only then find out what he does, you go home and sell your stuff, and knowing that going to the Void is probably a one way trip, you "top-up" your character right there on the spot.

    Win-win.
     
  3. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Not really. Those following the evil path deserve some fun as well.

    That one can be avoided. One doesn't have to cross the bridge, he can just use the world map the very moment he arrives. Unless crossing the bridge in world map would activate the tile as well. Another option is to make the very tile on which the Living One appears when he arrives to the Gateway to the Wastes location the activating tile.
     
  4. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    Yes it it. It sounds like a good way to cover the bases. Just in case the player decides to skip Nazrudin, he'll still have to fetch the Vendigroth Device. Placing a couple of the scripts in the doorway to the final room would guarantee activation.

    That's not bad, but it takes away from the "mysterious know-it-all genie" aspect of him. (The layout of the building helps a lot on this....)
    Also - Although the Tempter doesn't care what your alignment is, having him show up as a friend of Nazrudin when you're an evil person.... ?
    This could quickly get complicated. I think I'd rather stick with the simple approach. The character and setting is already built - all it needs is some fine-tuning.

    This is easily do-able. But, since it is possible to bypass the bridge and enter Vendigroth province (I think), having a secondary script inside Vendigroth would cover that.

    Ahh hell - I might as well script all three areas just to be sure.
     
  5. Alessandro_Monti

    Alessandro_Monti New Member

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    No argument here, except that I believe people shouldn't have to read posts, forums, walkthroughs and all that to actually find out about the Tempter of Fate. We have to think of a way to advertise his existence, both for good and evil characters. How about a neutral messenger that brings a neutral message to the Living One, near the Ring of Brodgar?
    "I bring an important message to the Living One."
    "Yes, that would be me."
    "I was instructed to tell you that going to the Void ill-prepared would mean certain death to you."
    "Ill-prepared? My dear sir, everything I have done so far has prepared me for this."
    "I was told you might react in this manner. You must seek The Tempter of Fate on the outskirts of Tarant to find more answers. I have nothing more to say."
     
  6. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    Mentally role-play this for an instant. The player has just traipsed all the way from Vendigroth to Roseborough - and now he's being told to go back to the Tarant area. :/
    How about having the messenger appear in the Device room as soon as the Vendigroth Device is in the possession of the PC?

    Instead of a trio of toggle-on scripts across the map, toggle-on the messenger, the Tempter, his slaves, and mark the map all in one shot.

    I'm pretty sure such a script can be "attached" to the entire sector the room is in so that no matter where the PC is standing in regard to the glowing chest, the toggle-on would be activated.
     
  7. Alessandro_Monti

    Alessandro_Monti New Member

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    Even better! Go for it! Let's just think of a proper dialogue between the PC and this messenger that appears right then in the Device Room. It should be something that makes the visit to the Tempter of Fate a "must do" or at least a "should do" thing on the way to Roseborough.
    Right?
     
  8. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    Right!

    I think the dialog you posted above is just cryptic enough to catch the player's attention, so I'll probably use it in part, if not in full.

    Add a suitably flashy, mystical entrance and exit to the messenger and this should be a winner.

    ChrisBeddoes used something besides the teleport effects for his Morindal character, so I'll check it out.
     
  9. Alessandro_Monti

    Alessandro_Monti New Member

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    Now that you mentioned the flashy entrance, I wonder if it would not be better to have an appearance of the Tempter of Fate himself (translucent, glowy - sort of like Kerghan at the Wheel Clan entrance). I know that it would make sense to find some use for his slaves (i.e. messaging), but a message this important (to help the Living One on his quest ahead) should not be entrusted to any messenger, regardless of his loyalty or capabilities. Also, the Tempter of Fate would certainly have the magickal aptitude to project his image in another part of the world.

    I think both ideas are ok. If you like this one better I can think of a few dialogue lines, or we could use the ones that you already assigned to him, just adding something like: come see me on your way back, traveler.
     
  10. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    To be sure, the messenger would be translucent. The Tempter is already semi-transparent. An "astral projection" of him (or a follower) would be even more so.

    The dialog: We'll see what evolves.
     
  11. Alessandro_Monti

    Alessandro_Monti New Member

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    Fair enough.
    It will turn out great, I'm sure.
    Cheers!
     
  12. Darkform

    Darkform New Member

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    my view on exploits is some people like them and if SOMEONE dosen't like exploits then THEY should just not use them till the time it would have been propper to use it as a non-exploit. (the obvios fisrt thing in Arcanum that comes to mind for me is the perm trick. if you don't like it well DON"T use it BUT ALSO DON"T purposely try to stop anyone elses ability to use it.)

    1) I haven't played with the tempter of fates yet BUT I have played over and over allot of times and one of the aspects of the teptor that interests me is my ability to sell fate points for something (detales without actualy seeing him is sketchy.). but in the games I played to the pont you are talking about placeing him is beyond the point I have reached max fate points and are loseing them do to the fact they can;t actualy go higher when I should have earned another (ether the cap may have been lifted or my memory may be a little off but I think this is correct if you didn't spend ANY fate points so far and got all or almost all of them.). so I would like to visit him for getting rid of a few fate pints every now and then allong my way to that point.

    2) didn't you add the ability to tempter of fate to let someone gain lvls with money? this was a request pretty far back in the topic for the compleat mod itself because of non-combat chars not being able to lvl as good as combat chars. well I would think that any player that has a non-combat char will want to use that part of the tempter of fate BEFORE they get to Vand AND probabably will even NEED the extra lvls just to get there in the first place.

    basicly with these pints I think the temper ether shouldn't be turned off untill a certin point or for it to have other triggers also like: if the char has a combat skil of X or more then temper is turned off untill ether char has X+ fate points or char triggers the trigger you mentioned or char reaches X+ lvl without having X+ fate points or activateing the trigger (this last one is because I think if memory is working right that you don't actualy have to get the device in order to Fight the last guy (I forgot his name) of corse if you don't have the device it makes for a almost imposable fight but I think I remember seeing once that it was posable to kill him without it in a walkthru somewhere.

    if you take my last parigragh in mind those triggers would meen the tempter would be avalable untill the char reaches X+ skill in a combat skill effectively letting non-combat people have thier way to get the extra exp they need. the temper will vanish (get turned off.). after reaching a high combat skill (cutting back on unneeded extra exp and perks.). but will turn back on if you reach a certin amount of fate points (giveing a chance to turn some exsess in and it just makes sense that the more "fated" a char is the more likely they would encounter some speacal fate changeing thing or person.). also the tempter would turn back on if you reach a certin area of the game (this is to pump up for the Void.). also the tempter would turn back on when you hit X+ lvl (because some people just continue doing random encounter and/or do all or almost all quests before trying to even get close to the end of a game {I call these 1 of 2 things, ether compleatests or the ones that don't ever want the game to end} and by the time you hit X lvl it should be obvios that if the tempter dosen't show up that even buying max lvl off him doesn't get rid of all the things he would buy from you and frankly as I see it if the char hits a high enough lvl to grant this then they already don't even need the tempter ecept to fine tune the char or fix something they messed up on the chars build. but however you look at it every single argument ther is about turning off the tempter is obsoleat after reaching X+ LVL because by then you don't need him and he is just a conviniance and couldn't be exploited if you tryed.)

    of cose if you have over X= combat skill and over x+ fate points but then spend fate points to drop below X and have not been to X map and are not X+ lvl then the tempter could vanish agin (with him vanishing and reapireing every now and then it would add to bhis mystory.).

    well I said my point on this and from what I heard the temptor could be exploited so much that it would be practicaly a cheat.and to those that want to stop others from useing it as one. they wil just go back to editing thier save and/or Background and/or any number of other ways to cheat I didn't mention and there is no way you can ever cotrol if someone else cheats on Arcanum, the only thing you can do is not exploit something you think will lessen your own enjoyment. technicaly the Upsidasium could be considered a cheat BUT if it would spoil the enjoyment of the game for someone to get and use it then THEY should just simply not get it (I think this idea is partualy what Armcanum is origanaly about when I think of it. all thruout Arcanum you have choices to do or use this and that BUT it is a CHOICE if it displeases you then don't do it, of corse these also come in the form of disadvantages also like playing a Elf techie or Drawf mage.).
     
  13. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    Yep. Good idea in theory but lousy in practice.
     
  14. Kirov

    Kirov New Member

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    Excuse my ignorance, but, I never encounterd this tempter of fate. and reading this has left me kind of facinated. Although the first time I beat the game, I was allittle bit up set that I hadnt compleated all of the side quests before going into the void, and then, whenever I beat "THE BAD GUY" I did so at a level that I thought was impossible. But, I was very upset because I watched the movie, and I saw that I activated the gate to get out, But Poof Game OVER!

    Reflecting back on this post, I see that, really this contributed nothing to the arguement or debate, and it really reflects the fact that I am still bored, because my new game disks, havent arrived in the mail yet!
     
  15. Xiao_Caity

    Xiao_Caity New Member

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    I think the Tempter of Fate is part of rroyo's kick-arse AWIP project.
     
  16. Xz

    Xz Monkey Admin Staff Member

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    Yeah he's not in the original game. I vaguely seem to remember something like it in CBArcanum though.
     
  17. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    Car-Arcanum had the Dungeon Master at the beginning to give you any cheats you wanted.

    The Tempter of Fate was inspired by a much simpler genie script created by Gentle_Giant.
     
  18. Darkform

    Darkform New Member

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    ok I encounterd the Tempter and I still think he should be avalable as soon as he is to start BUT I think you should alter the gold exchange amounts buy 100 so that the sell would give 75,000 gold and buying would be 100,000 gold. I think at that price it is still worth it but it is high enough of a cost that you have to still do allot to get the points and none would be able to uber up without putting some effort in it.
     
  19. Xiao_Caity

    Xiao_Caity New Member

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    ...... O_< I didn't understand a word of that, and I think I just gave myself a brain tumor trying.
     
  20. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    :lol:

    After reading Charles' posts, Darkform's is almost easy.

    Loose translation: Leave the Tempter alone but really jack up the price.
     
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