The Paradox

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Grossenschwamm, Oct 17, 2010.

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  1. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    I saw more egg from The Bob, I figured I'd say something else.
    You've obviously put enough thought into the dilemma.
    I don't think it's possible to blow one's mind while thinking about eggs. Unless, god is an egg.
     
  2. Viktor_Berg

    Viktor_Berg New Member

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    It all depends on whether you define the egg by its contents or its origin.

    The former: The egg came first.
    The latter: The chicken came first.

    So it really is the same as "half-empty" versus "half-full".

    The real question is: when did an invertebrate give birth to the first vertebrate?
     
  3. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    It's a theory and not a fact. The fact that you say "borderline" kills the absolute credability a fact would provide. Besides, most scientists are pretty certain we don't know jack about how the universe works anyway. Quantum mechanics is a big fat guessing game, and even if our theories regarding atomic and sub-atomic particles holds somewhat together on a smaller scale, the particles behave so fucking strange everywhere else that those theories were incorrect before they were written.

    If these multiple realities exist anyway, then you could easily just call them a part of the universe as they are part of our reality. I think people underestimate the word "universe". It means everything in existence, you know.
     
  4. Charonte

    Charonte Member

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    Quantum mechanics also happens to be a big, fat guessing game that explains everything we've ever studied in a much better way than anything previously.

    Science is nothing but a theory, but that doesn't mean it isn't atleast partially correct in describing the world around us. There are numerous empirical examples where quantum mechanics works and as such I'm more likely to "believe" it as opposed to anything else - if you choose to do so then so be it, but don't argue that a scientific theory with actual fact behind it is just a guessing game.
     
  5. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    About 525 million years ago.
     
  6. wayne-scales

    wayne-scales Well-Known Member

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    Is it plausible that something that wasn't a chicken (but was close to it) laid an egg, and a genetic mutation created what was the chicken inside the egg?
     
  7. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    I think you are taking the idea of the chicken and the egg too literal. The metaphor is basically asking what came first, did a chicken magically appear? What made the chicken appear in the first place? If it came from the egg where did that egg come from as so forth.
     
  8. wayne-scales

    wayne-scales Well-Known Member

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    Is there anything to which the metaphor really applies, though? The point I think I might be making is that paradoxes have no place in reality, as there are always answers, even if there doesn't seem to be. Creating a question with no answer necessarily implies the lack of an answer; but it is completely hypothetical.

    What would a triangle look like if it's angles didn't add up to 180 degrees?

    Answer: It wouldn't.
     
  9. DarkFool

    DarkFool Nemesis of the Ancients

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    If memory serves, scientists actually did find the creature that they think evolved into the Chicken.
     
  10. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with taking something literally? I live my life through literal interpretation of just about everything. It's just how my brain works. I feel if there was something more to what I've been reading, it would've been there in the first place.
    The chicken and egg paradox was invented before people even knew about the possibility of evolution, as it's a demonstration of the futility of a first case in circular reasoning.
    Be that as it may, there can be no chicken eggs without chickens, and no chickens without chicken eggs. The literal route gives me an answer; Eggs first. Choosing the metaphorical route leads to confusion, and no real answer.
    The point of any paradox is to expose a flaw. I say, within the bounds of an infinite reality, any outcome is possible on a quantum level. What we observe is simply that; an observation. It all ties into the anthropic principle, that is, the universe is the way it is because we are here to observe it. It's possible for any number of non-inhabitable universes to exist; but if there's nothing to observe it, how would we know?
     
  11. wayne-scales

    wayne-scales Well-Known Member

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    Literally? It is such a way, or it just seems that way to the observer (if at least two observers see different manifestations)? That seems to afford a few tricky questions!
     
  12. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    The weak anthropic principle: Isn't it jolly amazing that we live in a universe which supports intelligent life?

    The strong anthropic principle: Actually the whole purpose of the universe is to support intelligent life.

    The very strong anthropic principle: In fact the universe exists solely to support the Professor of Anthropics. The rest of us are just along for the ride.

    It's amazing what physicists get away with when they start talking about quantum.

    Incidentally, if you plotted a three-sided shape through three or more dimensions, the angles wouldn't add up to 180 degrees, would they??

    This is the point big-sponge is making, I think: That a paradox in our reality is easily solved by accounting for the extra dimensions which quantum physics demonstrate to be real, including extra eleven-dimensional systems of time-space-energy-matter which we call a universe.
     
  13. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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  14. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    An egg-laying proto-chicken, of course. This is another way of including another dimension into a paradox, in this case, the linear evolution of the chicken's ancestors.
     
  15. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    So what created the chicken's ancestors?
     
  16. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    Go in circles all you like, the answer is a tangent. You assume a closed system of "chicken" => "egg" => "chicken" etc. This works just fine when you live for 80 years at most, but your question addresses billions of years of molecular changes.

    The short answer is that God made your chicken's ancestors. The long answer is that your question is nonsensical.
     
  17. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    Then how did God come into existence?
     
  18. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    Speaking theologically, "God" existed always, and created the universe by means of its own substance. By definition, that particular question is pure nonsense, which is a shame because "God" is the only answer to those who refuse to accept that reality far outstrips their ability to make sense of it.

    No wait: Here's something you may be able to digest: A wizard did it. Whenever you notice something like that, Zanza, a wizard did it.
     
  19. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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  20. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I knew you'd say that, and I've noticed you're trying to get maximum provokation for minimum cognitive effort. The wizard was born out of your arse, my friend.
     
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