The One

Aw, man... even the "THAT'S ALOT OF NUTS!!" one? Jeez.

Where you a fan of Mystery Science Theater 3000, by any chance? I can kind of see how Kung Pow would seem lame to people who weren't fans of that TV show. Kung Pow had that same quality to me. Just one guy riffing over a really cheesy old movie.

 

I didn't even have to see Kung Pow to know it sucked. Just seeing him fight a cow who shot milk out of it's udders without the aid of a milker was enough to show me this was not a serious movie at all, and not only that, but a crappy spoof.

 

The cow scene was not the high point of the movie, I'll give you that. I think that was hyped so much because that's were 95% of the budget went.

C'mon, Jar. Give it a chance before you crap on it. It's funny, I swear. Don't listen to Sheriff. He's British. Have you ever seen MST3K? Or even sat at an old corny movie with your friends and riffed lines over it and cracked each other up? That's what this movie is like.

 

I have seen that Mystery Science theatre thingy, but only a few times on the sci-fi channel. It was okay. Nowhere near as over the top as the Kung Pow.

Jar, if you watch Kung Pow, make sure you do it after other, more worthwhile movies, such as Cobra and my collection of webcam footage of my empty chair, taken while I was away at work.

If you're desperate for humour and want something equivalent to Kung Pow, just flick through a dictionary, randomly string words into sentences and then imagine them badly dubbed onto a scene from a 70s kung fu movie.

 

BAH

It's funny, trust me. Everyone see it. Now.

 

After you have watched Reign of Fire, of course!

 

That's what comedy B-movies are for, like Revenge of the Nerds (with Jamie Cromwell) and Revenge of the Nerds 2 (with James Cromwell).

Yes, it's minor and early James Cromwell. Still, they are pretty funny movies (in the second they change the name of the hotel they are at from Hotel Coral Essex to Hot Oral Sex).

 

In HK and China he directed and produced movies. In fact three of his finest films: Fong Sai Yuk, Fong Sai Yuk II, and Bodyguard from Beijing were produced by him.

Sheriff, Jet wrote Kiss of the Dragon. And Menkhur, Jet is not a Bruce Lee. He can act, dammit. He can portray emotions without even needing to spew lengthy speeches. But not in English. You should have seen Bodyguard.

Here's what Jet said over at Entertainment Weekly:

Only as a stepping stone? Have you any idea how many movies he starred in, how popular he is? He doesn't need the fame.


---------

I might have been too hasty in my opinions. I do retract the "Come back to Asia. Aren't you stars rich enough?" and "But now they all want $$$ - period."

But I stand firm on the fact that the top Chinese stars are beginning to forget why they were popular in the first place - Chinese films. Expanding your horizons to Hollywood, that's not wrong. But the films that they are producing are mere shadows of what they used to do. Up till today I cannot understand the hype over Crouching Tiger. The fighting sequences were weak, the plot was so-so. In The One Jet seems to be trying to prove his fighting prowess over everything else. No other character is fleshed out, even the baddie is himself! In Kiss of the Dragon things were slightly better, but I've seen the Chinese-hero-goes-to-West-and-kicks-ass routine too many times. Romeo Must Die? When did Jet need CG to enhance his fight sequences?

It would be horrible if I said that. But I didn't.

Exactly.

KoD and RmD were bad movies for only one reason: they were bad movies. Period. Contact with the outside world is fine, but when it is done for the sake of doing it that's where things go wrong. Jet is not a Western actor. He has no background in Hollywood. What made his Chinese movies special (besides his awesome fighting) was that everything seemed to fit. Whether he was playing a historical legend or a modern cop, he eased into the role. It would all make sense.

In Hollywood he is trying to be what he isn't. The films don't fit him. In Lethal Weapon 4 it was obvious that he would have made mincemeat out of Martin and Roger if the script hadn't told him to hold back.

Can I take Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung as examples? The other darlings of the HK movie industry? They have made countless good Chinese films, and when they go to the US they accept roles in stupid things like Martial Law and Rush Hour, where both play the same figures - chinese cops who can't speak English but can kick ass, which make for nice comedy and lousy plots. Ultimately the movies are popular, not because that they are good, but because they are unique- to the West. Why are they degrading themselves like this? Money, of course.

What I'm saying is that it's a big shame when your favourite Chinese stars who make the films that you loved so much since childhood, go to Hollywood and act in movies that make you go "Huh? What are you doing?". It's a betrayal of sorts. The cream of HK movies going to Hollywood and making bad movies.


A good end to this migration would be that these actors eventually gain enough clout to make movies on their own terms - solely on their own terms. That they are respected for what they are, not some novelty kung-fu flick stars.

A bad end is that they don't gain the influence, and this die-hard fan has to sit through countless mediocre films.

A medium end is that they come back to HK.


Meanwhile, I open the newspaper and look for the Cinema listings. What? No Chinese movies? Where have all the actors gone? I wonder...

 

If you'd said this in the firs tplace, and not focused on Jet Li's nationality, I certainly wouldn't be having this discussion. It comes down to the films not fitting with your taste, but fitting with mine.

A couple of things I'd like to point out:

• The article you quoted says that it was a money issue that kept Jet Li out of the Matrix sequels, not a refusal to play second fiddle as Menkhur originally said, so maybe that WAS a showbiz rumour/myth.
• Jet Li is jointly credited for the writing of KotD, but Luc Besson actually wrote the screenplay. Jet's input was the story, not how it got translated to film.
• In the article you linked, it says Jet Li and Luc Besson were deliberately trying to attempt a meld of Honk Kong and Hollywood styles. I think it might be a bit unfair to the complain that it departs from the Hong Kong style. YOu might as well complain that it departs from the Hollywood style.

I'm sorry, but it still seems to me that you're angry that Jet Li is doing something that isn't a Hong Kong movie, and that trying something in Hollywood is intrinsically bad.

He still made some awful movies in HK. Have you seen the one I mentioned earlier, The Black Mask? Do you see that one as a betrayal of his audience because it was bad? I also believe Twin Warriors was a bad movie. I liked the martial arts, but the story was not interesting. The movie took too long to move the essentially simplistic plot along and did not mitigate it with any worthwhile character development. Like I said, I don't think we should pretend that Jet Li made only good movies in HK and bad in Hollywood.

Jackie Chan has made a lot good movies in Hollywood. I liked Rush Hour, if I remember correctly. No, they are NOT the same as his earlier HOnk KOng movies, which I also liked, but different doesn't equate to bad for me. His movies are humouress and have good action. That's what they aim for, I think. He doesn't only make movies where he plays cops, and his English is not bad. Yes, there is often a little playing on his Asian background, but then, he IS Asian and it isn't like it tries to make him or Asians look stupid.

They are actors and exist within an industry, the same as other Western and Eastern actors, few of which ever get to sit in the driving seat. Of those that do, some produce disappointing results.

This whole disagreement just seems to be a matter of perspective. I agree that there are a hell of a lot of mediocre movies made in Hollywood, but I think that there have also been bad ones made in HK. I agree that sometimes actors make compromises I'd rather not see them make, in order to fit into a role in a aimed to have mass appeal, but I don't think this is limited to Hollywood, either. The HK studios are as much about money as Hollywood is. I agree that Hollywood and HK films are different in some fundamental ways, but I don't think this makes them better or worse. Plus, I can see similarities. The HK movies tend towards poor (stereotyped) characterisation as much as Hollywood, and dodgy plots being used as vehicles for action scenes seems unfortunately prevalent in both.

One thing I can agree with you 100% is that I'd prefer to see Jet Li make only good movies in the future.

 

WOULD YOU BELIEVE I FORGOT TO CLICK ON SUBMIT WHEN I TYPED THIS UP THE FIRST TIME???

It isn't just that. Realise that the last sentence of my post is true. There are no (Chinese) movies being produced any more. they are all from Hollywood, deal with Hollywood themes, done Hollywood style. I am not criticizing Hollywood when I say that. But Chinese films are being totally neglected! the only movies to have come out in the past two years are slapstick comedies and boring romance films.

Goodness! Our perspectives are different. I remember watching it when I was only nine. I loved it. Tai Chi Master¹ was a hit. Tai chi is an art that is not based on violence or even self-defense, but on channelling qi². It is mostly associated with old people :wink: but Jet really brought it to life in that movie. I thought the story was ok. A bit old, but ok. Do you know that they took some parts out in the English version?

I couldn't remember Black Mask either when you first mentioned it, but after looking up the synopsis I remembered it - yeah it sucked. fight scenes still ruled though.

Rush Hour was nice for the comedy, but I've seen the foreign-agent routine too many times. (and I feel like slapping Chris Tucker every time he opens his mouth)

Actually, it's a biased old fan living in the past, who's feeling a bit miffed by his childhood idols, and a new viewer who thinks that they are good anyway. :wink: I agree that there's no point arguing over this - it's too subjective.



For everyone out there here's another exerpt from Entertainment Weekly:

Like, .
















¹The original title
²energy

 

I can sympathise about your frustrations at the lack of Chinese films. We had a similar thing here. In the 50s and 60s, England had a thriving film industry, but it just sort of died out in the face of Hollywood. It was until the 90s when we started to make a bit of a comeback, but even now we seem to have been pigeon-holed for a certain type of comedy. It doesn't really bother me that much, though.

 

Here in the US theaters are a pitifull experience.
If you don't live in N.Y. or L.A. the amount of International or Independent (notice how they both start with "I") films is null.

If it's not Hollywood-Cinema, it doesn't exist.
It has evolved from an art form to a business, where the goal is not to please audiences but to see how many millions it can rack up in the first week-end.

Yes, there are some good Hollywood productions, but where is the depth of character? Where is the subtlety that former cinema used to manipulate the audience's reaction? 007 didn't have an explicit sex scene, ever. And we all looked up to the man. Now, this year, the tradition is broken. 007 will get his explicit sexual scene. Sad, but true.
And in terms of the art of subtleness, Alfred Hitchcok never showed an actual scene of stabbing, shooting, or violence. Yet his films are quite good.

I'm afraid here in the U.S. it has all become a matter of loud noises, sex scenes that are mis-rated, and how much money will it generate selling action figures before the movie starts.

There are exceptions. They are what keep movies alive. But going to the movies is not what it used to be.

 

I just finished watching The Royal Tenenbaums. If it was made in Hollywood (I have no idea, but would guess it was, being a US films with big names in) I have to say that films are still being made with plenty of character. It was very good.

Those Wilson brothers, can anyone tell me if they're very big? I've seen Owen in Zoolander, and Luke in the abominable Soul Surviver, but didn't appreciate how good they are. I also didn't realise they are brothers until today.

Also, do me a favour and watch some old Bond movies. They may not have had explicit sex but they were extremely offensive about women. I find it hard to watch them without cringing these days, and yet the modern ones don't seem too bad.

 

Yeah, just watch the one about the man with the golden gun. Could also be called that, but I'm not sure. It has this scene where Bond sneaks into the grounds of this guy's mansion, and there's this nude chick swimming in the pool (unfortunately not on her back). She, of course, immediately invites him in to go a-skinny dippin' with her. They don't end up doing the dirty, but this is exactly the type of thing Fatman was talking about - James Bond movies having lots of scenes that contain nude or partially nude women that aren't offensive to women¹.








¹Yes, I know I got it all wrong.

 

Hey, I just watched Royal Tenenbaums a couple days ago. I agree it's a well done movie. Gene Hackman, Luke Wilson, and Gwynywywewyth Paltrow all turned out very good performances, I thought, and Pagoda is my new hero and role model. I have to admit that the ending got to me, too. I had a lump in my throat.

They're not superstars, but they're pretty well known. Owen Wilson has been in some pretty big movies like Armaggedon. Oh, and Zoolander (vomit). His writing impresses me more than his acting, however. He not only cowrote this movie (Royal Tenenbaums) but also the earlier Rushmore, another quirky, well written, well acted movie.

 

Um... Can someone be band for over use of QUOTES??? :dead:

(Just wondering)

 

Yeah, Lysa said Rushmore was good. I'll have to check it out.

 

If you think someone's using a lot of quotes, there was this one thread a while back...tzehoong had written a long article, and it got quoted endlessly with one line additions by about 10 or 15 consecutive people (or so it seemed) in various sizes.

 

Cool, I think you'll like it. If you like Royal Tenenbaums, then you'll like Rushmore. The "feel" of it is similiar.

And remember, I saw Ms. Cross first. She's mine.

 

i want to talk

I just want to talk so plz talk to me plz say somthing to me anything .