The biology of Dark Elves

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by Muro, Jun 5, 2011.

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  1. DarkFool

    DarkFool Nemesis of the Ancients

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    Maybe it's been a long ass time since I played, but I don't recall fairies?

    Zanza: That's possible... and the version that survived, but didn't really evolve? Kites.
     
  2. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Fairies are there alright, known as Love Lights, Death Lanterns, Will-o-the-Wisps and Volar's Wisps.
     
  3. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

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    I was speaking from a broader fantasy perspective, but the Love Lights would have been my Arcanum reference.

    I was just thinking about humanoids in general. Are fairies humanoids?
     
  4. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    More or less. A Love Light is described as a minute naked man with wings and eyes of a fly and a glowing chest.
     
  5. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

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  6. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    It's just a layman's description. Doesn't necessarily mean wisps are human-firefly hybrids, though I personally like the idea.
     
  7. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    Here's a theory on the relation between humans and the other humanoid species:

    Humans are the original humanoid species. Over an unidentifiable amount of time a thing called Supernatural Selection occurred (I think there's a book or somesuch explaining this theory in the game), transforming some humans beings into elves, orcs, ogres and such by means of magical energies. These species are all related to humans, but not to eachother. Think of it as a centre with different lines going in separate directions from it. One could possibly tweak the possibilities of offspring between the races in some way, but it's probably very complicated and dangerous.

    That did perhaps not make very much sense, but then again I'm very tired.
     
  8. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    I'd almost go with Ogres being the base race, through evolution the higher the intellect the smaller the frame became as it began to rely on tools etc.
     
  9. wayne-scales

    wayne-scales Well-Known Member

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  10. Drog Alt

    Drog Alt Member

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    See the manual appendix, A-2: Races, for the history of Arcanum's races.
     
  11. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure this is the case with dogs in real life. A dog can interbreed with wolves, coyotes and dingoes to produce fertile offspring; but coyotes and wolves or wolves and dingoes can't (or something along these lines anyway, it's a while since I've studied biology). This theory seems pretty plausible to me.

    The theory also makes sense of this because half-elf half-ogres would not be fertile, therefore you'd think only a few of these individuals would exist at any one time in Arcanum and they wouldn't propagate due to their infertility. Imagine if you could play a half-elf half-ogre: ridiculously strong, predisposed to magic, enormous and living around 200 years - they would be pretty awesome!

    Here's a thing; how come halflings and gnomes can have the Elven Blood background? This suggests to me that halfings and gnomes can interbreed with elves to make fertile offspring - which doesn't really make any sense given the fact you never see half-elf half-gnomes/half-halflings (a quarterling?). Also gnomes often have human wives, and I guess they could just be married without any prospect of having offspring but you'd think if gnomes could have Elven Blood they'd be able to interbreed with humans too.

    Off topic a little: How come half-elves aren't very long lived? Taking the idea that the lifespan of a race is that from when you first make a character x 5 (which seems to work for elves and humans) that only makes half-elves live to around 175 years old; I would have thought that it would be the average between the two races, something like 550 years, rather than this. Also thinking genetically you'd think that whatever causes the elves to live longer would be dominant over that which causes humans to live only a hundred years; there are exceptions where a less favourable gene in real life is dominant (Huntington's disease) but mostly genes which favour better chances of survival (in this case living longer so you have more opportunities to make little baby half-elves) are dominant.

    Even more off topic: What about the gestation period for the races? It seems weird that an elven male could breed with a human female and you'd get a baby in 9 months, whereas for the reverse situation of a human male and an elven female the baby is probably in the womb for years; and yet when either of these babies are born they're just classed as half-elves with no distinction between the two. You'd think that longer time in an elven womb might make the baby more suffused with magic, unless elven males have super charged magic sperm!
     
  12. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

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    This is the most scientific theory that I've heard. I would support this theory if it didn't contradict the Arcanum lore. Perhaps this his how it would be in my world.
     
  13. DarkFool

    DarkFool Nemesis of the Ancients

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    Interesting. I missed that, somewhere along the line. I've just always hated Will-O-The-Wisps for being fucking balls of light that find ways to hurt me.
     
  14. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

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    They were rather disappointing as far as character detail was concerned. Still, the implied defenselessness of a ball of light made them that much more satisfying to smite.
     
  15. psb6w7

    psb6w7 New Member

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    Breeding requirements

    This is an interesting thread, but it lacks some more specific details about what makes a critter able to breed with others. The primary issue is that in sexual reproduction the number of chromosomes should be the same, so crossover takes place properly etc. Issues with non-fertile offspring can result from chromosomes being equal in number while being slightly out of sequence. Certain portions of the genome are read at a given time by each critter's enzymes, but the index may be different for each; an elf based enzyme might go looking for gamete production, but find instead the protein matrix for ogre nose cartilage. If the sequence is sufficiently out of sequence or contains different information entirely then the organism may have major issues or fail to complete gestation. Once a stable breeding population was established one could continue to with those individuals, albeit in humans and other organisms with a high number of heterogeneous gene pairings you encounter problems with inbreeding. Other things, like many grasses and grains, can and do inbreed readily without trouble because individuals have very low variance. Predictions are limited by not knowing much about the gene make up of elves, ogres and the like but I imagine with the longer life span and low population density of elves they lean toward homogeneity. These statements aren't fully detailed, but I think this addresses the primary issue. Also, it may be worth noting that all human "races" in the real world are genetically indistinguishable; i.e. the variance between two Europeans is equal, perhaps greater, to the variance between a European and a Pacific Islander.

    Edit: The idea of the races stemming from each other is highly unlikely. The better explanation is that they share a common ancestor, some sort of proto-human/elf/potato thingy.
     
  16. wayne-scales

    wayne-scales Well-Known Member

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  17. TimothyXL

    TimothyXL New Member

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    The potatoes are the common ancestor? Of course, it all makes sense. I remember doing a science project in which I used a potato to light a small lightbulb, and I've heard the human body contains electricity. How did I manage to miss that?

    Now then: to figure out what effects magic can have on DNA, reproduction and other stuff.
     
  18. DarkFool

    DarkFool Nemesis of the Ancients

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    I always thought of magic as like very friendly radiation poisoning.
     
  19. psb6w7

    psb6w7 New Member

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    Well according to the manual:

    Disintegrate
    Minimum Level: 15
    Resisted by: Constitution-5
    Effect: this spell eliminates the binding force between atoms, reducing the target
    to its constituent particles and dispersing them.

    If magic can undo bonds selectively then it should be able create them selectively, so...

    Anything goes.
     
  20. wayne-scales

    wayne-scales Well-Known Member

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    ...What?
     
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