Technology VS Magick, who suffers most in the feud?

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by Mr.Bomb, Aug 13, 2010.

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Which is best in the world of Arcanum?

  1. Steamworks

    1 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. Magick Obscura

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Exaggerating much?
    Body of Air - 25 (2 every 10 seconds) fatigue
    Shield of Force - 5 (1 every 10 seconds) fatigue
    Summary: Casting both spells costs a measly 30 fatigue points (a typical character has more of them at lvl 1) while maintaining them costs 3 fatigue points every 10 seconds. A normal human being has a heal rate of 3, while a wise mage should have twice as much, so I really don't see how he would run out of power just because of that.

    I do not recall it ever being said whether or not Preator's counsellors could be even considered battlemages. Not all magic is combat magic, just like not all technology is combat technology. We don't know anything about their number nor practice (could have very well been a handful of lower tier Tullan mages), so saying that technology is more powerful than magic only because those particular mages didn't fancy fighting an army of riflemen is like saying that magic is more powerful than technology only because an average herbalist won't even try to defeat a wizard skilled in the Force college.
     
  2. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    Magic vs Technology?

    One word: Disintegrate.

    QED
     
  3. Vaz

    Vaz New Member

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    One target.
    And then the other 400 or so turn you into dogmeat.

    QED
     
  4. Vaz

    Vaz New Member

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    "I don't recall it ever being said..."
    In short, you got nothing.
    What Praetor said was they were useless.

    I also don't recall that Body of Air
    and Shield of Force make you untouchable.
    Tough maybe, but with several hundred slugs coming at you every five seconds or so, there will be enough criticals that it's over.

    As for your endurance claims, who cares about seconds?
    Mass battles last hours.
     
  5. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    There is no need for double posting.

    Invisibility. Four hundred or so men gaze idly or waste ammo shooting into thin air.

    Game mechanics aside, what Body of Air does is turns one's body into air. Good luck on defeating air with bullets.

    Greater heal rate than fatigue consumptions means regaining more fatigue points than what is being used up, no matter if we're talking seconds or hours.

    Dissuading from drawing conclusions from insufficient data is nothing? Most curious.

    And what the Vendigroth Wastes in all their glory say is technology was useless against Arronax's magicks. As you can see, it is ill-advised to claim superiority of technology over magic or the other way around because of the result of just one war.
     
  6. TimothyXL

    TimothyXL New Member

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    What about conjuring walls of fire/force/earth, summoning elementals, orcs, ogres, demons, undead or even cute little bunny rabbits? Or a dozen invisible swordfighters wreaking havoc among the artillery crews? And if all else fails, a powerful team of mages could teleport to the capital, dominate the ruler/rulers and have them surrender.

    Magic is so powerful it can even bring back the dead.
     
  7. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    So can technology, actually. Vide Restore Life, the Reanimator and - in a way and for a period of time - the Necromizer.
     
  8. Vaz

    Vaz New Member

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    Interesting.
    But none of that happened in the Cumbrian War,
    and they had the help of the strongest mages in the world.

    Instead, they fled.
     
  9. Vaz

    Vaz New Member

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    Which lends support for Arthur C Clarke's famous statement:
    "At a certain level, technology is indistinguishable from magic."
     
  10. magikot

    magikot Well-Known Member

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    Please stop double posting, it's incredibly annoying. Edit buttons do exist.
     
  11. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    It didn't happen in the Cumbrian war because the mages sat to the side twiddling their thumbs remember.
     
  12. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    Wat? The mages in Cumbria were probably nothing more than powerhungry paperpushers from Tulla. Mages like Arronax and Nasrudin were really powerful, because they could destroy civilisations at a whim (at least Arronax). Technology in Arcanum can't beat that, how could it then beat the most powerful sorcerer in Arcanum, Kerghan, who can end all life at a bloody whim?

    But we don't need that to win a war against techies. An invisible mage could infiltrate the techie camp and mind control their military leaders, forcing them to make terrible mistakes. Hows that for powerful?

    Magic is lore-wise superior to technology in Arcanum, end of story.
     
  13. Viktor_Berg

    Viktor_Berg New Member

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    Wolfsbane, such powerful mages are born like once a millenia.

    As for infiltrating mages - if you didn't notice, most mages are rathre conservative in their views on life - I'm sure most of them would consider such sneaky tactics cowardly.
     
  14. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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  15. Hawkthorne

    Hawkthorne New Member

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    I guess that explains why Perriman Smythe has mastered the Phantasm college, but he never uses the good spells. He could be confusing enemies with illusions and turning invisible, but all he ever seems to do is cast Illuminate.
     
  16. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    No, that has much more to do with the fact that follower AI sucks in Arcanum.
     
  17. Hawkthorne

    Hawkthorne New Member

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    I knew that. I was just giving a theory I don't really buy the benefit of the doubt and trying to play along.

    If mages were all about playing fair, nobody would study Phantasm, Mental, Temporal or Summoning. There might be something in the lore about mages from Tulla only learning those spells for purely intellectual reasons. But still...

    The only spell colleges that are perceived as bad in the lore are Necromantic White and Necromantic Black. And that doesn't keep anyone from using Necro White healing spells even though they're tampering with forces that some people think should be left alone.

    The only reason why the mage NPCs you can end up fighting sometimes don't just turn invisible or use spells you can't do much about (like, say, Temporal Distortion or Stun) is that the game designers weren't that mean. There's no ethical reason for mages to mostly stick with Fire, Force or Necro White.
     
  18. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    There was a chance that I will pick him up in one of my future games. The probability of that chance just drastically dropped.

    I don't recall anything like that in the lore. What I do recall, however, is a book in Tulla saying that mages are beyond good and evil, right and wrong. Allow me to quote:
    I would like to see at least one example. I do agree that Necromantic Black is generally perceived as evil, yet from what I've observed, if any college is generally perceived as good, it's Necromantic White, while the other 14 colleges are perceived as more or less neutral.

    It's magick. Tempering with forces that some people think should be left alone is what it's all about.

    To this day I remember when Arbalah stunned the hell out of me.
     
  19. TimothyXL

    TimothyXL New Member

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    Yeah, a few stuns after each other in the same turn. As daft as it might seem, it is still the best bit of magick user AI in the game. A guy you can kill before you reach level 10. Hmm... Maybe I should start a fight with the Masters in Tulla. Just to see what happens, so to speak (I predict that the Master of Black Necromancy will summon an undead).
     
  20. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    In real time Arbalah tends to stun, cast a harm or two and stun again before one regains consciousness, and so on. Probably the best battlemage in all of Arcanum, he is.

    As for attaking the wizards in Tulla, you should prepare yourself for a fair dose or disappointment, really. Each and every one of the Tulla Master Mages has a Magickal Aptitude of 25 (30 if half elf, 40 if elf). I didn't know whether should I laugh or cry when I saw the Master of Nature summon a lvl 4 cougar. Putting the old coot out of his misery seemed the only humane thing to do.
     
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