Opinions on The Passion

1) If you're asking for information on his father you're free to Google it for yourself. I can't be the only one who knows how to look things up on the Internet. 2) I never said he denied his faith or religion. 3) He is NOT a Roman Catholic; he belongs to a splinter sect that broke away from the chruch after the Second Vatican Council. This sect does not acknowledge the Pope as its leader, and without the Pope there can be no Roman Catholicism.

You were saying about ignorance...?

Oh, shut up.

 

for the record, i don't agree with RPJunkie about atheists. i'm relatively sure most of you reached the decision about your beliefs (or lack thereof) after lots of thought and deliberation. those who didn't think about it much, well, you are ignorant, but not because of you're beliefs. while i do think that atheists are just people who have lost hope, it's not for me to decide what you do with your life, or afterlife. i've never been much for the evangalizing thing.

when i say that only Christians should see it, i mean that those of you who don't believe in Christ will probably be offended/bored. since you don't share the belief structure behind the movie, you'll probably miss what i see. and without faith, i think all i would have seen was a bloody, gory history lesson. while it's historically accurate according to the bible (mostly, there's a bit of artistic license taken since, really, the bible doesn't go into great detail), it's awful hard on the stomach. word of warning--even if you like gore, i would recommend skipping the snacks, if you don't finish them during previews, you're not finishing them...

 

Hope is not the exclusive domain of the religious, and I find it amusing that some people cannot see enough hope/beauty/whatever in reality that they have to go looking for it in fantasy.

You do realize that people are born atheists and only become religious later in life, either through indoctrination or personal choice? Would you say the newborn infant has lost hope?

 

Well, so far it is merely angry ramblings of two local MPs. We'll see how it goes. This movie is far from being the most urgent issue on our government's daily agenda, anyway.

 

There are indeed things that it is hard to talk about with people who do not belong to the same group. Some of the meanings built into "The Passion" will probably remain just as unnoticed by non-Christians as the tiny distortions, misrepresentations and manipulations are for non-Jewish viewers of "Schindler's list".
From what I understand, the problem with "The Passion" is that torture in the movie is not a tool of delivering the message. Torture IS the message. For Christians, it probably does make sense, as an illustration of what Jesus supposedly went through to save humanity from sin. For non-Christians, the movie is about blood and gore that they do not feel related to. Which is why it is indeed kind of an "inside joke".

 

It's already been decided that France will not release it. Why? "We already have enough anti-semitism here without this propaganda."

Bile...rising...about...ignorant...board...weird agreeing...with...both...Sleek...and...Canis.

 

If everything in the movie came from the Bible, then why do you need to see it to reaffirm your faith? It's not providing you with new information, all it's doing is giving you a visual potrayal of events as laid out in the Bible (which IS including artistic license on the amount of blood and gore), which theoretically should be nothing new to you? The movie, as far as I'm aware, does not prove everything that was said about Jesus, or anything else like that, so I can't really see the point of the whole project.

Methinks that those who see it to "increase" their faith are lacking in the first place, but don't know it. The implications of that you can come up with yourself.

 

Yes, you do need faith to enjoy/appreciate this movie. Otherwise, its message means nothing to you. I understand how some people who believe strongly would find this movie entertaining/faith affirming (insert word here) but for me, its a movie about a person who may or may not have been important thousands of years ago who I really don't care about. (Not to say I don't care about people from this long ago, but my appreciation runs more to Virgil and Homer etc etc)

So he researched it. Anyone making a movie along those lines would be expected to do this much, to try to retain historical accuracy. Just because he researched it doesn't preclude it from being a vanity project. (Which I firmly believe it is.)

How very condescending of you. Yes, please teach me about love and compassion, I couldn't possibly know what those things are! The reason this movie caught flak is because people isn't because it is about love and compassion, it's because people feel it lacks it. Here is a quote from the New York Times review of the movie.

I am not an ignorant person, and I am not condemning anyone for their beliefs. In fact, you seem to be the only one here who is condemning people for their beliefs.

I don't need or want your condescending pity. Its very pretentious of you to assume that because I don't believe what you do, my life my be horrible.

 

Every post after my last has simply proven what I have said. We(myself included) here at HoL have chosen to be focused on the negative and always point out eachothers flaws. If you truly, carefully read my post I do not point anyone out and condemn them, I do not say anywhere in my post that what I think and/or believe is right and everyone esle is wrong, nor do I directly call anyone ignorant. Those of you that think read into what I said rather than look at its face value.

YES, I critisized a few for what they said; which is no different than any of you. We all read more into every post than is truly there and then ignite and flame the person who wrote it. Religion is a futile conversation unless kept completely neutral, which NEVER happens here. I refuse to clarify or explain what I said. I said it, and that is that!

btw Canis, my reference to Gibson's religion came from a Reader's Digest and that is all I know.

I never claimed anywhere in my post that I was entirely correct, I simply stated what I have read, heard, or seen. Only some of what I said is my own beliefs and thoughts. So flame me if you will, I cannot stop other than not posting. I have no problem with athiests, they follow/believe/(insert appropriate word or phrase) what they choose as do I; which is everyone's choice.


Have fun with this one guys :lol: ..........

 

Rp, you have increased my hatred of Christianity and religion in general. Yes, that's right, I hate religion. Note though, that I do not discriminate against Christians, or any other theists. I just think the whole idea is stupid. You do good deeds, you go to Heaven. Why not, you do a good deed, you're a good person? Another flaw in Christianity is, God creates you [/i]with flaws and then punishes you for those flaws. So even if god exists and the Christian way is true, he still gets the bird.

 

Rosenshyne wrote:

I object! I *was* christian and I have felt those feelings, just now I believe faith in an untagiable thing is utterly worthless.


RP junkie wrote

That seems very, very close minded and obviously seems to show little understanding.

Rosenshyne wrote:

I don't know if I've lost hope but I certainly don't give a shit. Aside from that. I disagree with the statement, people can have as much hope as they want to give them selves for whatever reason. You don't need a religion to help you express it.

Really you were critical in a broad way whether you meant to be or not and what the hell is the point in posting somehing if 1)you aren't going to elabourate when people misenterpret it or 2)YOU ARE NOT SURE YOU ARE RIGHT

Oh and how many other thousands of people were cruicified by the Romans? I'm sure there would've been, even using probability/logic other people who have experienced more pain.

 

I just wanted to add that Gibson's dad also said the 9/11 planes were controlled my remote control, by apparent jewish mad scientists. Ok, a paraphrasing, but nonetheless insane.

I'd also like to note that I haven't seen the movie, and the only reason I would is for heckling purposes... 8) -too-cool-for-god.

 

Fuck you. You are the most hate-filled entity I know.

I didn't "find" salvation. I can't find salvation. A priest didn't give it to me, and I haven't paid for it. (Oh yeah, one more thing, fucker. I don't tithe. My preacher has a job, he doesn't make money by being a pastor.)

I've questioned the faith I was raised in. I do so often. More often in the past couple of years than ever before. I have shed more tears over the "Eternal Question" than anything else, have spent more agonizing moments in doubt.

But, in my heart, I know that what I believe is good and true. I don't "blindly" follow anything. I choose to follow.

Exactly how far up your ass did you have to reach to pull this bullshit out? You just post things about me that you have no proof of, no basis or fact. Heaven forbid if I were to do that to you. I'm not the cold-shoulder turner, my friend. Check mine and your history of posts towards one another. You are the blaster, buddy.

Don't believe the same as I do? Fine. Good. Don't. I couldn't care less, and hate that I've spent this much time on this already. I don't shove my beliefs down your throat, like you do to me. Yet, the funny thing is, you accuse me of being the zealot, the hell-fire and brimstoner. You accuse me of being exactly what you are.

Jarinor is someone who couldn't be more different than me in his ideals, his beliefs, his random firings of nerve-ends in his brain, yet he has never, EVER, been as bitter towards me as you have Sleek. He doesn't try to fry me for believing in God, nor do I him for believing or not.

Jarinor, if front of God and everybody, thank you. Maybe you weren't exactly trying to come to my defense, but that's how I felt when I read this. I kinda got a swelling in my bosom when I read this.

I apologize once again for shitting all over this thread. Damn it makes me mad, being blasted like this by Sleek. And I know that a response to this will be made by Sleek, saying pretty much the same shit he's already said a thousand times, and attempting to dismantle all I've said. Go ahead. I'm all the dumber for stooping.

Bye.

 

The truth is only a problem to those that oppose it.

 

You fools, I'm not bitter or angry at you, I'm only bitter and angry at the masses that choose to ignore evolution, the rights of those who choose to have same sex relationships, and to abort 2 week old gametes. I'm not full of hate, I'm full of frustrated rage. "The truth is only a problem to those who oppose it" my ass. The truth is only a problem to those who grab one version of it and cling to it, and its doctrines, and decrees, and dogmas. I believe in a creator, but I ould never belong to say, the Catholic Church, or Islam, of Hindu, because no matter where I turn I see hypocrisy. Therefore I think I'll leave my dealings with god for the after life, and concentrate not on serving god, but on serving man, and believing in man. I worship at the house of Socrates.

That so hated comment I made, Retard, was not directed at you, or anyone specifically, it was rather a descritption of what I believe is the essential problem with religion, and the philosophy involved with "faith." You don't need to be blind to be lead, and I think that for a lot of people its a lot easier to accept a beautiful shepherd with their open eyes fixed on him, than the fact that the field around them is burning in its own hate, and ignorance. Focusing on your own salvation, is a lot easier than putting the fire out, so if the shepherd won't do it, then the sheep need to get off their asses and do it for him.

I don't lack compassion or understanding, I just lack sympathy for those who spend more time looking up at a cross than down at their own world. He's not going to get off that cross and fix your problems for you, you have to do it yourself. I believe that if god does really judge you after you die, he'll juge you based on how you've helped your fellow man, not on your faith. Faith means nothing. Talk is cheap, etc.

 

Hypocrisy comes from man. Denominations come from man. I don't agree with you saying, "Hey man, the Creator ain't gonna fix these problems". The Creator didn't cause these problems. Man (and sin) did. And again, I ain't tryin' to convert you. Nobody gets more irritated with the "recruiters" than I.

Exactly. Kinda.

The afterlife is not of this life. Man is not of the spiritual life. The two are different, miles apart. You can't mix man and spirituality, because the two are totally different. Man is flawed. Spirituality focuses on a perfect Being, or beings. It's like taking two magnets and trying to get like poles to attract. They'll bounce off each other.

You say that the sheep need to "do it for Him." We are sheep in a spiritual sense, not a fleshly sense. If I go to your house, and piss in your flower garden, you wouldn't run out and read the Bible to me, would you?¹ No. You would kick the ever-loving shit outta me. Me, in the flesh, pissed in your garden. You, the fleshy one, run out and beat my ass. Your neighbor wouldn't look out their window and say, "Look at that. Why doesn't God do something about that?" It's nothing spiritual. It's two grown men kicking the shit outta one another.

You can't mix oil and water, nor can you mix spirituality and the world of man. They are two seperate issues. I do agree with you, Sleek, in that some people do try to mix the two. I think they are kinda missing the boat.

I don't usually think about a post before I post it. My ideas and arguments usually come to me as I type. After reading and re-reading your post, I guess one could say you and I are on the verge of agreeing. You think people spend to much time looking at the cross, and wanting God to solve all their problems. I don't think someone can "spend too much time focusing on the cross, as it were, but I think that the real issue is that people try to mix all that I've mentioned above.

In light, sorry for calling you a hate-filled entity. I still disagree with most of your leanings, but that's no reason to curse you on a board. I do become offended at people treating spirituality and faith so un-reverently (Is that a word?) however. Still, sorry for taking your post as a personal attack.



¹(Now, some people, the "Recruiters" would probably run out and read the Bible, but that's a different topic.)

 

Sleek_Jeek wrote:

Aight. Now this statement kinda proves what you are trying to call 'bullshit' on. I did not say what the truth was, nor did I infer it. My statement was not intended to tie into my previous posts, nor to support, agree, put-down, or call wrong anybody's post(s).

I simply stated that the truth (from whichever perspective you choose to view it) is a problem to others who in a word oppose it (they do not share the same or similar view). I mean this that anybody can take this statement and use it; and depending on your p.o.v.¹ it could defend what you are saying, or be used to argue against whatever it is you are disagreeing with.



One of Sleek's earlier posts::
Snowmane wrote:

Not to everyone, this movie is sure to be a hit with the s&m crowd. All those whips and chains etc, I got a downright hard on when I saw those big strong roman guards and their loooong whips. Oh my! May be crucifucking will become a new, popular fetish in germany when this movie finally comes out. {end post}

Now although I usually disagree with Sleek and his views on things this little crack at humor made me laugh. It conjured some oddly vivid pictures of the act of crucifucking in my head. So props to you Sleek, and a round of applause too :lol:

¹point of view

 

But are we talking about truth or opinion?