New Arcanum. Old engine.

Discussion in 'Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum' started by Royaltramp, Apr 17, 2008.

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  1. Royaltramp

    Royaltramp New Member

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    I personally think if we were to see a sequel to Arcanum we would need to retain the old engine. 3D isometric RPGs just aren't all that fun.. There's something about Arcanum's 2D, almost cartoony graphics that I like. They're unique and they have a nice feel about them.

    Who else agrees we should keep the old engine? And in which case, if it is not released, do you think the modding community would ever work together and try to realise the dream for themselves?

    -Matt
     
  2. Vorak

    Vorak Administrator Staff Member

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    The modding community is tiny and those that are still active are largely working on long term individual projects.

    A joint effort to make a mod of any sort is incredibly unlikely.

    But yes, the 2d sprite graphics are better in a lot of ways.
     
  3. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    As a rule of thumb, I prefer 2d isometric whenever I'm supposed to have a party and FP when I'm supposed to be alone (think VtMB and Morrowind).

    That's not to say that some 3d elements are all that bad though. After all, I think the characters in ToEE are 3 dimensional and it looks great.
     
  4. Royaltramp

    Royaltramp New Member

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    Come to think of it, party based and 3D works too. Think NWN, loved the original, wasn't so fond of the expansions though. But eh it has a massive modding community behind it.

    But I think Arcanum/Fallout are relatively unique in their style of ingame art, and I love it. The only similar art I can find in any game is Desperados, which I also love to play every now and then.

    I guess I'm a sucker for 2D isometric :p

    I'd be tempted to try out something like an unofficial continuation for Arcanum once I've done through with this character. There are some good tutorials out there for Arcanum modding, and I've done my fair share of modding for: NWN, Morrowind, Oblivion, and the like.. Along with enough programming experience that means scripting for Arcanum, which I've never actually tried before, should be relatively easy.

    Basically I'd just work on it every now and then in my free time. It wouldn't be a 100% serious effort put in, just something I slowly build up, it's a pity at the lack of new art for the game.. I've begun work programming my own games multiple times now but I've always ended the project due to lack of any graphic artists, since I suck at anything apart from web-design related graphics :eek:

    Yes this post was a little TL;DR. I'm that bored.

    -Matt
     
  5. theorel

    theorel New Member

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    I was also thinking about doing a sequel to Arcanum as an Arcanum mod. Initially inspired by the fact that I wanted to create an arcanum mod, but didn't feel like creating a world. So I would be interested in working on this. I'm new to modding Arcanum, but also have some programming experience(they even gave me a degree :p) and some storytelling experience(in the form of various pen-and-paper games). Anyways, I've got finals grading coming up(Grad School), but once that's over, I should have some extra time to throw around, and this would be a good place to throw it in my opinion. So I'll tell you what I was thinking, and if it jives with you, I say, let's give it a go...
    My current thoughts are to make a sequel in the sense, that it's Arcanum about 30 years after the events of the original game...far enough that the events of the ending slides could have happened, but close enough that technology wouldn't have changed over-much. Of course, as a sequel, we have to decide what ending slides happened...my thoughts have dwelt mostly on treating it as a sequel to the "good" endings. So basically, Shrouded Hills is a boom town(also a bit of a tourist trap), Cumbria is mighty, Black Root is part of it, The Bentley is in business, Tarant's very industrial, Caladon and Tarant are in an uneasy equal alliance, Loghaire rules the wheel clan and all dwarves, Magnus has begun pulling together dwarves for the Iron Clan, Bedokken and Elves get along, Vendigroth raised from the wastes. Other than that, random things, like a monument in Ashbury, Panarii religion has become big and popular, Pagan gods have fallen out of favor, etc...
    I have no ideas for a main storyline, but lots of side quest ideas.
    I would like to rebalance the game, create in depth followers, a good main story, that doesn't depend on the followers, but is complimented by them. And I would like to place various throwbacks to the original game. If you'd like to work together on this cool, I would really like to make something great, and am sure that I do not possess all of the skills necessary to make it happen...if you want to do something else, that's similar but a little different, I'm willing to change my mind on things. If you're thinking of something totally different, well, I guess I'll see how long my endurance will last :)
     
  6. DarkFool

    DarkFool Nemesis of the Ancients

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    Wow... your plans sounds as extravagant as Xz's and mine was... XD
     
  7. Darkform

    Darkform New Member

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    how about Arcanum 2 being just 5-100 years after Arcanum and based on Arronax succeeding at making a way to leave the Void. or a evil ending. Virgil was wrong you wasn't reincarnation of Nasrudin in Arcanum and failed but in Arcanum 2 you are. if 5 years you was on the Blimp you was just thrown clear of the crash sight and was in a coma found by some campers and brought to shrouded Hills where Doc Roberts kept you alive in the coma for 5 years then you come out of it and you got Arcanum 2.

    some major editing of tech towns to show Arronax has been sending forces against the towns. totally new scripts for everyone some new faces some old ones died. with it like this a moder could use the current world map and most of the towns.

    or 25+ years a camper found your mother dieing who was thrown clear of the crash and she was pregnant with you so you was the one "born on wings of fire in the hills shrouded". I could see it now the visions of if Virgil or another Panarii fanatic knew a woman gave birth when the Blimp crashed outside Shrouded Hills but the Panarii don't learn about you till your around 25 living in Shrouded Hills. maybe when you turn 25 you finally learn about the Panarii (your adopted parents didn't believe) and you start the game talking to a Parnarii priest and first thing you say would be "my mother died in that Blimp crash while giving birth to me".
     
  8. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    You shouldn't force the ending of the original Arcanum in any certain way; the person known as (or not known as) the Living One that you played in the original Arcanum simply vanished from history (as all great legends do) and left the world to its own business.

    Arcanum 2 should be about something completely different.
     
  9. Darkform

    Darkform New Member

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    have to force a ending everything in Acanum 2 would depend on if Arronax got out or not. and Arronax getting out would not just vanish form history.

    to not force a ending you have to do a prequel or be on a different continent. forcing a ending would cut ALLOT of time off of making Arcanum 2 because you already have world map and towns you only have to edit NOT make from scratch. could do good ending but then where do you start?

    Evil ending you have world map and your end boss everyone knows about Arronax.

    good ending you have world map theres rumors about a reicarnation of Nasrudin defeating Arronax again or you have world map and the good ending vanished from history.

    no forced ending you have prequel with world map you are Nasrudin and banish Arronax = everything has to happen = none of the fun of Arcanum 1. or you don't have world map it's a different continent NOBODY from Arcanum 1 is in it = not even a #2 it's just a game with same engine.
     
  10. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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  11. Darkform

    Darkform New Member

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    well to be honest no I only get to Iron Clan entrance before I make new game and accidentally save over game. played to that point allot.
     
  12. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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  13. Darkform

    Darkform New Member

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    trying to but just last week I saved over the char that was farthest along.
     
  14. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    Stop saving over your furthest save and get out of the Iron Clan. No more excuses.
     
  15. DarkFool

    DarkFool Nemesis of the Ancients

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    Agreed. Also, I would love to see the following:

    A Vendigroth-based prequel. Maybe do some kind of conflict between the Vendigroth technologists and the Elven Counsels?

    p.s: I put this in a spoiler tag because it talks about stuff that he hasn't seen.
     
  16. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much so. You can'ttalk about an ending before you've finished the game.
     
  17. Darkform

    Darkform New Member

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    done. my point is still valid but in a different way the player and bad guy may be forgotten but the effects the player had on Arcanum would still be there. so you still have to force a ending. even if nothing changed that is still a forced ending.
     
  18. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    Then you shouldn't do a sequel in that manner, because a forced ending sucks balls.
     
  19. Darkform

    Darkform New Member

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    almost every game with a sequel was a forced ending usually the best posable good ending. tho the Final Fantasy games may have a few that are called sequels but actually are not the same planet and have none of the same people in it witch in my opinion is not a sequel it's just a game with same engine and same theme.

    so you say Fallout 2 sucks balls? it was based on a forced ending of Fallout. I don't think it sucked balls but you say all forced endings suck balls.

    Diablo 2 sucks balls? thats also a forced ending out of at least 4+ posable endings.

    even Megaman 2-9 are forced endings because Megaman is in them. any sequel with a person thing or place in it that came from one of the games in front of it is a forced ending because that person thing or place survived or got changed.

    I hear Megaman X didn't have Megaman in it and I stoped paying atention to that game name after that but if it mentioned the origanal Megaman in it then it was also a forced ending.
     
  20. team a

    team a New Member

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    Yes, most sequels or related games rely on certain facts having occurred. However, you don't have to say more about the previous game than you want to. For example, you don't have to say much about the PC from Arcanum when designing a sequel. I think Wolfsbane's idea about the PC fading into history was a good one. Keep in mind that at the time you go to the void, no one really knows what it is, or who is in it. Only you, your followers, the dark elves, and possibly Nasrudin know, and the people you [tell your story] to in the game know maybe a little. In a game that takes place right after Arcanum, you could always have conflicting rumors about your old PC, like having some people think your old character was male, some female; some that he/she was a dwarf, some an elf, some a halfling, etc. While you obviously made a great impact on the game, unfortunately only a few privileged individuals know, so it shouldn't have too much of an impact.

    As for forcing an evil ending, I won't say much for DarkForm's sake, but i think it's clear that there's no game there. Escape from Tarant was interesting, but you couldn't make too much of it.

    I think using the existing world map is a really good idea. You might want to change it by removing some areas, changing some of the geography (Vendigroth Wastes, add more deforestation?) but the built-upon sectors you don't want have to be deleted first.

    I have my own take on what may have happened after the game ended, but I'll just say this. The whole Arronax/Nasrudin thing will probably only work as a sidebar to the sequel. It's going to have to go on some other kind of main theme/story, like the reemergence of magic over technology. A sort of postmodern losing faith in technology thing would be one option. Also, placing the game at more like 100-200 years in the future would allow you to solve a lot of loose ends that might be caused by forcing endings, and reasserting magic could slow the spread of technology somewhat, meaning that you wouldn't have to creat a whole lot of new art.
     
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