Modern gaming and the effect on people's minds

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ring lord, May 21, 2015.

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  1. Ring lord

    Ring lord Member

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    Hello,
    I've returned here in order to rant about the quality of modern questing. What better place for such a rant than a forum dedicated to a game that has the most complicated quests and zero pointers.

    My girlfriend began playing Arcanum for the first time a couple of days ago, and among the first things she asked was "Where's the quest pointer?". Disgusting.
    Made me realize that for a person who started her RPG gaming from things like Fallout 3 and Skyrim, it's quite complicated not to follow an arrow around. In turn, this realization made me question the arrow mechanic that is now a constant presence in most of the games.
    "You take 3 apples (which you take here, here and here... let me point you to the precise crates in which you'll find them) and give them to 3 ladies of the night (which can be found here, here and here... let me mark their exact locations on your map)."

    People don't have to think for a single moment in today's games and it's dumbing down every single person who plays them for a long enough time span.

    What's left of the gaming experience? I could probably write a piece of code that would go through all the motions and eventually have a similar gaming experience to what a person would be having during such games.

    Are games dead? They're just interactive movies these days...
    "But wait!" you might say, "What about all the items and skill choices in the various RPGs?", well, what about them? You pretty much finish any game in god-mode, no matter what choices you've made during the experience. And the items? Well, I'm a big fan of hoarding junk, so at least there's that.

    Yay for interactive movies with a hoarding element.

    "Games are made this way so they'll be more approachable to larger audiences!"
    Yes, but who said all games should be done this way? It's like taking all music and turning it into Pop. "For the sake of larger audiences".

    "But... money?"
    Yeah...

    P.S.
    Antichamber is a relatively new game, and I had to actually think in order to finish it, which was nice.
    But that is no RPG...
    If anyone has any suggestions for new RPG games which are impassable to the average ape, I'd be happy to hear of them.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2015
  2. on1ondevelopment

    on1ondevelopment Member

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    Inquisitor is quite good from what I've heard, it's a farily recent title which is supposed to be like a classic RPG, but I haven't tried it yet.

    However, I do agree with the terrible ways of today's gaming industry. About a month ago, I ranted here myself about such things as paying for modifications on Steam, in case you'd like to read some of my points, here is the link to that thread: http://www.terra-arcanum.com/forums...pening-to-the-gaming-industry-of-today.22981/

    I just wish people could stop caring for the common casual gamers and start making games appeal to hardcore gamers again. Sure, some modern games like Skyrim are okay experiences, but you can ask just about anyone if they have tried Skyrim. New titles are made for casual gamers, just to make more money...
     
  3. Ring lord

    Ring lord Member

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    In that post you've linked, you state the above, and I don't agree with that tiny bit I've quoted. I believe that the problem with today's games is that they're nothing but "entertaining", except the target audience has shifted drastically since the year ~2000.
    If most people on this forum find thinking and various obstacles to be entertaining, most "gamers" these days prefer shiny colors and no possibility of failure.

    As it has been since the dawn of man, stupidity is the reigning quality over the manner of progress. These days it's just too easy to monetize on that, so why bother with quality writing or elaborate quests when there's hardly any market for it, (relatively speaking).

    As for the various mods you've discussed, well, I agree with TheDavisChanger who summarized my thoughts on the subject.
     
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  4. on1ondevelopment

    on1ondevelopment Member

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    Sorry if I was a bit unclear as to my actual meaning on that one, but I meant that I feel like most game developers these days focus solely on making money, rather than to keep people playing their games for many years ahead. Today's games have so little content that they become uninteresting after a few months, and then an expensive DLC releases which has a few maps and weapons, keeping people occupied for some more months. Then, a sequel is announced, everyone pre-orders it and starts playing it for a few months; this cycle goes on for every year.
     
  5. Ring lord

    Ring lord Member

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    Well, that is the situation that is created when people care about the quality of their facebook likes more than whatever was liked.
    No one will bother with anything unless it's the "hip thing to do", or however youngsters refer to these things today.

    Can't wait for cyanide to become the next big hit.
     
  6. Jungle Japes

    Jungle Japes Well-Known Member

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    A large part of the problem is tied to the evolution of gaming technology. Where in the early days of computer gaming, it was not impossible for a small team of designers to produce something state-of-the-art on a limited budget, the constant advance of gaming tech has turned making a polished modern game into a mammoth production involving hundreds of people and millions of dollars. With so much at stake, producers must necessarily be risk-averse, making only slight deviations from established money-making designs. And making money means aiming for the widest possible audience; more challenging = less accessible = less money. Thus, we are doomed to follow the arrow.
     
  7. Arthgon

    Arthgon Well-Known Member

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    It used to be so different when I was young. In those days you had none to little graphics (D for Dragon and d for dog) and most of the time no or very little music. (or the internal speaker that was not that great. If you know what I mean.) However, the plots and story were the most amazing than you can ever imagine. Later on the graphic and music were better, but still the plot and story came first.

    Now they are just interested in pixel perfect graphics and state of the art music. Plot? Nay, just go and fight monsters to get XP and get higher levels to get more powerful items/abilities to beat the more difficult monsters etc, etc. *sigh* I am also not that of the fan of RPG or adventure games in 3D. Yes, I liked NWN but still...

    Back in those days, you needed to keep on point and clicking to walk/use items/fight/etc etc. Heck, for some of the older games you even had to use the keyboard to get the things done. The C64 only had the joystick or the keyboard. No mouse.
     
  8. wobbler

    wobbler Well-Known Member

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    I could recommend Witcher. Sure there are quest pointers in it, but you can turn off a big part of the help and play it on harder difficulity. I would say that it has a very good balance between story, graphics and all the sheezbang.
    I know for a fact I will not complete one of the sidequests since the note says basically says "look under the bridge you found the letter" and I have no fucking clue on where I found the letter.
     
  9. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, and in the crude and belligerent state in which I often find myself disagreeable when I address these forums late at night, I don't feel this is a solid argument (you expected me to say something far more crude and belligerent didn't you? Well beware of my semi-congent fingertips).

    Cutting to the beef of the matter, I think the real problem here is most of our unfortunate generation played Diablo II. There exploration was, if you cared even a jot, almost mandatory. Yet - most of it - was also optional and required no quest pointers. Some of it was a generic kill bad guy X in location Y for item Z - there's no map markers there yet still the fait accompli was slapping you round the face. This created a somewhat false expectation of games rewarding needless exploration without map markers - this is obviously ironclad fact whether you played Diablo II or not, I don't care. I don't know this to be true, but you were going along with it so far so neither do you, but anyway...

    I don't give a shit. Map markers, or lack of, are not a reflection on the difficulty of the game or the idiocy of the players. People claim, "Shit man, I listened to that dullard NPC and it blew my mind and now I know where to go and I'm so much more intellectually superior and playing on a next level than y'all for having the same experience but with the map markers in place." - it's a fallacy.

    No combat difficulty has increased and decreased, more just that people have played a game they have enjoyed in a more expedient amount of time when their evening sometimes feels like it is on a premium. Don't get me wrong, lack of map markers can assist intrigue if it's the main focus of the game - but even so unless played extremely well - it feels a tight trite.

    I like Skyrim a lot, and I like Arcanum a lot - however as long as you were playing with any slight attention during Arcanum then you more or less following markers:

    "Where do I find Bessie Toone's daughter?"

    "Dernholm!!"

    "What, I didn't understand?"

    "DERNHOLM!!! And here's Tarant for good measure!"

    This may seem like both barrels for a new member - but as long as you say that Vorak loves Tony Abbott with all his heart, DE's a filthy Swede and Smuel's a likely UKIP supporter I'm sure you'll fit right in; whatever you do remember lead with those sentiments first.

    PS Sorry DE, I always feel bad about calling you a filthy Swede, but not Yuki though.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
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  10. Ring lord

    Ring lord Member

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    I wonder who this refers to. :rolleyes:

    Anyway, I believe there's a huge a difference between simply following a marker than actually having to play along with whatever world you're in. For example, when you need to locate Dr. Renford A. Terwilliger for the whole T'sen ang bit, you have to figure out where to begin the search for him. Arcanum is full of these "Where the hell do I even begin?".
    As stated above, in modern gaming experiences you simply follow the arrow, having no reason to stop and wonder what to do next. As I've said, one could probably write code that will be able to complete these games without any trouble. In other words, the human element is hardly there, except for choosing the cosmetics. Since the introduction of games like Mass effect and Dragon age (which are both quite fun, don't get me wrong), the dialogues became way dumber too, which provides a rather limited amount of options to complete the game, thus eliminating the re-playability factor.

    I've completed Arcanum some 15 times, Fallout 2 some 10 times, Baldur's gate games about 3 times each, planescape torment a few times, etc... yet I don't see myself playing Dragon age or even the mentioned Witcher ever again.

    I just hope that developers realize that it's a closed loop of dumbing down games which in turn make players dumber, who then demand even dumber games, thus making them even dumber... etc etc...

    P.S.
    Jojo, your member ID number is 11666. \m/
     
  11. wobbler

    wobbler Well-Known Member

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    Not to shit on people (actually, to shit on people) but the dialouge choises might have been made easier to make the games easier to paly on consoles. When you have a controller, having more than 4 options of text to choose takes longer time. especially with that wheel of theirs.
     
  12. Ring lord

    Ring lord Member

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    Reminds me of Fallout new vegas, which was supposed to have a large area with tons of stuff to explore, and instead the strip was cut down to 3 separate zones, having very few buildings and stuff... because consoles couldn't handle it.

    Less buttons, less dialogue options, less exploring, little to no thought and plenty of cut-scenes. An ode to couch potatoes.
     
  13. Arthgon

    Arthgon Well-Known Member

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    Are they really THAT lazy these days? I mean. Back in those days you needed to find those clues in the dialogues yourself or as far I can remember you even simply have to know (and has to be in the right wording) the right thing to say to the person/riddle. Otherwise, you would not get any further. ("LIE WITH PASSION AND BE FOREVER DAMNED." for Bard's Tale) If you know what I mean.

    Map markers? Yeah. I remember when the auto-mapping came in use. Before that you needed to have a lot of time on your hand to make a LOT of maps of lands and dungeons to prevent that you are lost.

    If you look at the differences between how the dialogues were done on the Apple/PC/C64 versions of Ultima IV/V/VI and the ones on the NES/SNES then you will notice that the dialog trees having been replaced with single statement barks, a lot of story changes, no portraits, leaving out a lot of NPC's or has a simplified talk system combined with some censorship due to Nintendo's policies. Yes, it has been made more easier, because some of the technical things may could not be done on the consoles in those days. Perhaps they are still having these problems.
     
  14. Ring lord

    Ring lord Member

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    There used to be dozens of ways to approach a quest, while now there are 2, both of which usually lead to the same outcome anyway.
    And come on, the amount of popularity Jaden Smith receives is proof enough that something went horribly wrong somewhere in the process of our "evolution".
    Games are just one aspect of the same issue.
     
  15. Smuel

    Smuel Well-Known Member

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    I'm on board with your complaints regarding modern gaming, but leave Jaden Smith alone!
     
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  16. Ring lord

    Ring lord Member

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    How can my comment be real if your eyes aren't real?
     
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