Lord of the rings Module designs

Discussion in 'Module Discussion' started by Taure, Sep 29, 2005.

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  1. Taure

    Taure New Member

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    :)

    Hello ! Arcanum is such a great game, and Lord of the rings such a cool universe, I always wondered why nobody makes mods out of it ?

    I tried, and find a basic issue : the scale factor. How to scale LOTR to Arcanum map size ?

    I studied with this map :

    http://szurkulet.hu/Altalanos/10_Terkep/intterkep.htm

    ( This is a cool map, used in LOTR first Trading card game)

    ( Relating to time travel, I came up with the conclusion that Arcanum world map is 1/10 scaling arcanum screenplay size, and considering a 1m70 human height in pixels, and the great map scales I found, I came with the conclusion that: )

    making squares 400*400 pixels out of the http://szurkulet.hu/Altalanos/10_Terkep/intterkep.htm
    map would be an accurate size scaling.

    But in the end, I ended up with the conclusion that 357*357 pixels for square size would be better, because it checkers teh great map into 12,5 square width and 8 squares high, and that doesn't actually significantly change much the scaling computing I did.

    So to put it brief : Look at this map :
    http://szurkulet.hu/Altalanos/10_Terkep/intterkep.htm

    make a 357 pixel grid inside
    choose a square ( or several ones ) that interrest you within
    and use them as world map parts


    This study may seem a little boring, but ths point is : to come up with a common solution, a common standard, so peopel can build cool LOTR mods AND be able to exchange or use other people maps.

    The whole point is to have a 'checkered' map, with a 'square' logic ( and not a 'place' logic ( which means you look for the square map that contains Moria, not for a map named 'moria' )

    I mean: one could feel like having the energy to make a cool Moria, but designing a great 357*357 map is long enough in LOTR world! beleive me lol

    Well, this is an idea attempt to open a discussion and a trend over LOTR arcanum playing.

    I really think LOTR is a great universe, Arcanum such a cool great game, and that it deserves LOTR modules. So I worked out on the scaling problem. So I hope some people will use these conclusions, to make LOTR adventure modules. And maybe using these scale choices, will have all these modules compatibles, or exchangeables somehow ( like : you creat and adventure around Lorien, make a cool Lorien region map, but don't feel like having the inspiration to creat Moria ( lol ), so you look, find someone made the square which contains Moria, and just have to copy it to include it in your adventure )

    What do you think about it ?

    I'm now trying to design a map over Anduin valley region, west of great forest ( Radagast and Beorn region ). I'll post it if it ends up interesting.

    Reactions awaited :)

    Taure
     
  2. Xz

    Xz Monkey Admin Staff Member

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    You must have a lot of spare time, because that project is HUGE.
     
  3. Vorak

    Vorak Administrator Staff Member

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    *Considers making a bad joke about Xz's reference to the word 'Huge' following a post largely concerned with scale*

    Taure, you must be either a genius or insane. Or both?
     
  4. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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  5. Gabriel

    Gabriel New Member

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  6. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Administrator Staff Member

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    It wouldn't be hard. I can't remember but from memory¹, I don't think there's any limit on how big your world map can be. Ramp it up to the full scale LOTOR size and wayhay, there you go.

    Would be an interesting project. You'd really need Troika's secret tools to do it though. The one where I believe they made each town as a separate map and the plugged them all into the world map into their right co-ordinates. That way it allows many people to work on the one project at once.

    ¹Who didn't spot the oxymoron in that?
     
  7. Taure

    Taure New Member

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    :p
    lol

    yes, sure, LOTR whole map is a tooo much time. I wouldn't even try thinking about it lol

    my little post was only intended to:

    1. communicate my thinking about scaling LOTR (by which I mean how to scale a LOTR map into a Arcanum world map)

    2. Provide an idea that allow to make (small) parts of LOTR map, in a way that allow people stay compatible, and thus to be able to use each other's *small maps* to have great adventures.( It was the whole point of that

    http://szurkulet.hu/Altalanos/10_Terkep/intterkep.htm

    map 357 pixels griding ) idea

    you know.. so that I just make a 'square' ( 357*357 pixels=357*357 sectors), which is reasonable, of a place I like. And maybe somebody makes the square fo someother place, and I can use it too, because we draw on teh same scale and square-logic basis... Just an idea ToT

    lol

    ** Taure ** :p
     
  8. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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    If you feel up to it, but it's slow work.
     
  9. FourHorsemen

    FourHorsemen Member

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    Well the whole fuss in arcanum starts on account of a Ring!

    If you want to work on something on slightly smaller scale I would suggest Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain.
     
  10. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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    Yea, but that wouldn't broker the attention of a LOTR project. Would be easier to get help for LOTR.
     
  11. FourHorsemen

    FourHorsemen Member

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    Well at least "Races-wise" Arcanum seems pretty compliant!

    I'd say that there'd be considerable sprite and animation work to be done, especially for creatures like the Urukai.

    You'd also like just have to have Shadowfax...maybe the sprite for the cow could be replaced.
     
  12. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    Elves would be seriously overpowered though. Shouldn't they have bonuses to everything if you truly wanted to do things in accordance with LotR lore?
     
  13. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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    And wouldn't Halflings have to like, start as expert pickpocket. Bilbo was the shiznit, and he was a fat, middleaged one. Imagine one that's in shape?
     
  14. FourHorsemen

    FourHorsemen Member

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    Lets not forget that ther'd be the whole trouble ofmaking the "Riders of Rohan"....cos "Pedestrians of Rohan" would just plain suck :p
     
  15. Peter Quincy

    Peter Quincy Member

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    Also, the multi-levelness of the architecture would be hard to convey.

    Your map size is pretty good but it's going to end up being rather small. Arcanum is at least the size of the terrain depicted and it was 2000 x 2000
     
  16. Taure

    Taure New Member

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    :)
    ' Your map size is pretty good but it's going to end up being rather small. Arcanum is at least the size of the terrain depicted and it was 2000 x 2000 '

    Well, scaling is a compliated issue I discovered, so complicated
    that I thought about posting my studies results on this board.
    To make it simple : I opened worlded, did place a human character (assuming 1m70 high), mesured its pixelsiez, then placed two barrels on lines cross, mesured the pixel size
    from that, I could compute the 'world-assumed' size of a sector.
    Then, I had a doubt ... I did launch arcanum, open the worldmap, prepare a straight line travel between two city, make a screen-copy, copy the time of departure, launch the travel, copy the time of arrival.
    then, I closed arcanum, open a image editor, open my screen copy, and compute the pixel-lenght of the travel I did between the two cities.
    From that, I could compute the worldmap scale... adn arrrgh ... something was wrong. the character was travelling at a 10 factor ( I don't remember, but something illogical, like 1,17 miles/day or 117 miles/day.. there was a *10 factor .. I don't remember )
    so, to put I fast, Arcanum map scales are 'compressed' ( it means the world map scale doesn't reflect the game screen scales)

    I had to decide, and choosed to follow a 'Time-travel' logic : assuming that the character has a reasonable travel time, let's say 12 miles/day

    So yes, arcanum map scales kind of 'compress' space scale
    but as to scaling LOTR, it wouldn't end up in a ridiculously tiny map : I ended up with 12,5 *8 squares of 357*357 pixels (=357*357 sectors)
    Well, it seems to look good, vaste enough to feel comfortable

    *** Comments on others posts :
    Yes, many drawings designs to put in .... but lots of fun already, with a little creativity
    the army of rohan pedestrians... lol ...
    I play Neverwinternights... they get pretty organisez over there, ending up putting out some 'add-on pack' ( like lotr add-on ) made by fan.
    You know, I'm way too busy to carry on this project. maybe just working on a 357 map. I just intended to share the ideas, and that **messy** scaling problems, that I ended up with some pretty cool and good solutions.
    And to that 'LOTR is too huge!!' discouraging problem, my 357 square logic may be a nice idea, so that people can make 357*357 maps, and share maps, to creat greater adventures. I mean, a 357*357 map is no big deal. I even found a way to make worlded map from worldmaps(bmp maps) :
    * To paint the map, I use a trick : I use a picture wiewer, alt-tab it over the arcanum editor, move and scale it to perfectly fit the arcanum land editor, put the mouse over an interesting point ( like the curve of a river), and alt-tab to arcanum edit, without moving the mouse, so that the mouse is now over the arcanum edit land map, and I now click on the arcanum map to make a point. Doing this several times allows to make many 'reference points'. Then I draw lines, fill the whole map, and manage to end up with pretty good map copying *

    AH, I'm too busy. Otherless, I would open a website, over the federative idea : bring in your 357*357 LOTR map, and let's make LOTR-Arcanum adventures!!! lol Ah, too busy ToT

    (thanks for your comments :) )
     
  17. Baal

    Baal New Member

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    If any one wants to try making LOTR-Arcanum, my sister has almost every LOTR reference book out there. So she could fill in the blanks of what you might need to know to make quests/characters.

    If some one could make this work they could probably sell it and make a bundle.
    FRA Rule-13: Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.
     
  18. Xz

    Xz Monkey Admin Staff Member

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    Taure, if you ever finish this thing, and I'm still alive (I _could_ be ran over by a car tomorrow) I'll play this thing. :)

    The concept seems really good, but it will take a hell lot of time, as Blinky said, it's slow work.
     
  19. Vyenna

    Vyenna New Member

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    you could be ran over?? wow..
     
  20. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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    Yes, you never heard of the Great Detriot Car Stampede, where 35 Dodge Rams broke lost and trampled 53 people to death?
     
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