I think I know why elves are magical.

With their long lifespans, and because they aren't able to breed for quite some time, their evolution was too slow. They were able to perceive their limitations long before they died; they could reach their highest potential, then live hundreds of extra years without purpose. I think they altered themselves to take care of this.

But that makes you wonder about ORCS. Maybe orcs were created, not as a war weapon or slave, but as a failed attempt to shorten lifespan and bring ignorance of potential, a failed attempt to put their best out of reach and give them hope, a hope never to be realised.

Elves have pointy ears, orcs have pointy ears. Coincidence? Maybe.

 

them orcs were made to carry the weight those miniatures can't

Parmanian

 

er......

 

So it has nothing to do with the fact that Elves were a divergence from humans due to a massive magickal surge of some kind then, like it tells us in the manual?

 

hee hee thats what i would have said...

elves are magickal because they ARE, its how they have always been. read the silmarillain (tolkien) its a great read and you find the origin of so many things, like dwarfs (first called naugrim) were made by morgoth, the enemy before sauron

 

Well, I don't think Tolkien is taken as gospel in Arcanum, and for some reason I don't think Xan accepts John Beddoes as the final word on Arcanum evolutionary biology. Which is as it should be in science, though unfortunately we don't really have any better source of information, the genetics lab inside Xan's head notwithstanding.

 

Hehe.

The greatest thing about theories involving fantasy (and possibly anything else) is that they can never be proven or disproven. Fantasy is a shifting, swirling desert dune, and theories on it are a camel forever trying to see the other side.

 

Really? I thought it was because fantasy isn't real. I mean, I didn't know that people actually made theories and did extensive research on this. It is made up, I think we should remember that. (As much as it would be cool for there to be elves and other fantasy creatures.)

 

Hmmm.

I'm sorry. Was I being unclear? Darn. I thought that shifting, swirling desert dune metaphor was a keeper. I should stay off of metaphors; puns are more my forte.

 

I have seen several books on how dragons could fly. They weren't children's books.... Also, look at the sheer research thet Tolkien put in on the languages of Middle Earth. Many other examples slip right from my memory.

I never met a phor I didn't like. :lol:

 

there are people with nothing better to do

 

It's all well and good making up new theories and such for fantasy worlds, but one thing you've got to remember is that it's got to be done within the borders of the fantasy realm, or it's just stupid. The creation and evolution of the orcs and Elves from man has already been outlined by the Arcanum manual and so creating a new theory is utterly pointless and has no bearing on the Arcanum universe.

It's like trying to argue the fact that it was not actually Frodo who took the ring to mount doom, but infact a small robot and that everything else was implanted into the minds of everyone by tiny octopuses from the planet googleberry. Basically, it makes no sense when taken in context with the rest of the world and Tolkien's wishes and so it shouldn't be done.

 

Yes, Tolkien did an awesome job with all the Lore, Geography, Language, History, and everything to the point that it almost seems as if it had happened and he, somehow, has a first-hand account.

Just as scientists believe there may be life that evolved on other planets, so could life have "evolved" or been created, for that matter, differently in Arcanum, and in Middle-earth.

In Tolkien's books, there was a race of Men, the Númenoreans, who had a very long lifespan, that is until they began to breed with lesser Men. Also, in Arcanum, Halflings could live from 400-600 years, while in Middle-earth, the lifespan was about 90-110 years. Big difference.

In Arcanum, Elves are magickal due to the magickal vibrations within their cells, and that is what causes them long life. In Middle-earth, it is due to how they were created.

Now, although I love Tolkien's theories, I think I prefer the idea of Dwarves and Elves being evolved from Men instead of just created by some dark lord. All that creation stuff gets old; Dwarves created by Morgoth, and orcs and trolls made by Sauron. And Elves just always happened to be there. Where did Men come from? Probably made by a killer ant trying to take over the world, eh?

Now, in the books, it says that Sauron can't create, but can only imitate, thus Orcs are an imitation of Elves, and Trolls an imitation of Ents. Now, the idea that Dwarves were MADE from scratch doesn't fully fit in, except it may be plausable due to the fact that Sauron is merely a servant of Morgoth.

I wonder why Sauron gave them such a hassle when the destroyed his master with much less trouble.

The biggest difference is in Arcanum, the races were created through science; the science of evolution, while in Middle-earth, the races were created through magic; the magic workings of Dark Lords.

Although, if you want to suppose that Elves and Orcs are related in some way, and Elves have their long life due to mating issues, you can create and name your own little world, and that will be the truth in it.

 

And then there are people who are desprate for a topic for their PhD. thiesis.

As far as evoloution in fantasy worlds, I prefer the concept that humanity is not the sole survivor of genis Homo. This can lead to a wonderful aray of pesudo latin scientific names. Dwarves = Homo troglioditus, Hill Giants = Homo Giganticus Exurbis, pixies = Homo Homonuclus Mischevious, Night Goblins = Homo Nocturnius Vridian, & etc.

Then there are the Dragons....

 

homo idioticis = idiots

 

HUR HUR HUR HUR HUR



I'm not really an idiot, I just felt like saying that. I mean, genis homo! The "HUR HUR HUR HUR HUR" prectically writes itself!

 

Except that scientific names are only two words- something like Homo Summus might work better for Giants, homo homonculus for pixies, and homo nox for night goblins. But I'm not sure that they would all be in the genus homo... pixies, giants, dwarves, and night goblins are nothing like humans, or each other.

 

We are extremely bored aren't we? I try not to think too much about the different theories, gives me a headache. Like when I watch movies about time travel the whole thing is a paradox most of the time and it gives me a headache when I try and figure it out :lol:

 

What, since when? I thought that it was more common to refer to something by its genus and species, but that some others required further clarification by citing the subspecies. Like Homo sapiens neanderthalis and Homo sapiens sapiens, Gorilla gorilla gorilla and Gorilla gorilla beringei.... well you get the idea. Of course their full scientific name is much longer that just that, but I'm not that anal.

(Not trying to be argumentative. I'm actually intersted in such things. )

 

Thanks to palentology, the distiuishing feature of genus homo seems to be the hips & legs. So if they stand & run like we do, they are in genus homo. And then there is the opposable thumb & speech. In a fantisy world, magic applies to evoloution. Some criters are inherently magical & can use spells, certanly a survival trait. Others have metabolisims that are magical in nature. They produce or require mana, so in such a world rhinos are what unicorns devolve into without sufficent mana. Others have been altered magicly & breed true. Which leads to the question, who would create pixies & gremlins?

How much are pandas like racoons? Or St. bernards like chiwawas? Or for a real shock, fruit bats may be reclasified as primates any day real soon now.