HoL five years on, what's changed?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sheriff Fatman, Feb 7, 2007.

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  1. Sheriff Fatman

    Sheriff Fatman Active Member

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    Okayyyyyyyyy ... think I am getting a bit more of the current flavour. Nice to see Jar eventually got elevated to godhood. He's a nice guy, prolly does a decent line in fire and brimstone when it's needed.

    Interesting comments about DU. I won't tell you what I think of him, since he's an admin.


    Well, not really a Codex whine, but I do have some goods. The MMO hating crowd might not wanna hear it ... not sure.

    About the time I got banned from Codex, just before in fact, I also got banned from Duck and Cover. Clearly, the admin line will be different, and possibly many users too, but my view is got banned because I expected too much from their sites. A lot of them put themselves forward as fonts of intelligent criticism on CRPGs, when they were mainly fonts of random bile-mongering; they'd rather misrepresent a case than acknowledge even a small positive from the things they hated. I tried to be more open-minded but it often left me at odds and eventually one argument went too far and I got banned.

    One of their most narrow-minded peons was Rosh. Back then he was buddy-buddy with the admins and they let him get away with spewing hate and crap wherever he went. One argument I had with him, first on DaC and then on Codex, was about how much money WoW would make.

    His position: the MMO market was crowded, a lot of titles were going under, WoW would have trouble squeezing into the market and might flop. He particularly objected to the notion (introduced by someone else, not me) that WoW would be "a license to print money".

    My position: Blizzard had a track record that would give them a good chance at being a big title, and with the increase in internet usage the MMO market could expand rather than having to keep slicing up the same number of players.

    Seeing how badly Rosh was wrong gives me a nice warm feeling of self-righteousness inside. I know it's petty, but the people on those websites really spew some crap at times and they did after all ban me. Plus I have an all-knowing ass to feed.
     
  2. Sheriff Fatman

    Sheriff Fatman Active Member

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    I had a massive discussion with DU and a couple of others, but mainly DU, about this subject wayyyyyyyyyy back when. Think that was the thread that sparked our idea for grudge match discussions. Unfortunately, during some database crash or other the thread was completely lost.

    Mostly, what I said in that thread - at length and repeatedly, obviously since this is the internet - was that I recognise most MMOs ARE a treadmill, but I don't believe they have to be or necessarily always will be.

    There are two ways I can think of that MMOs could work that would make them much more than that.

    The first is to create truly enjoyable PvP and balance it probably. There's nothing better than a multiplayer fantasy battle where both sides have a chance and you have a good scope for tactical play (i.e. not twitch-based combat like FPS games).

    The second would be to put more investment into GM tools and talented GMs to create content on a regular basis (ideally weekly, though that might be too frequent realistically). Make it much more story and role-play driven to bring the atmosphere back and remove the treadmill. This would entail removing any effect on game mechanics for loot. People could find items that make them look different, have a different title, give them access to different PvE areas, provide trophies, etc, but that didn't improve their chances in combat.

    There are many other changes of varying complexity that I think could be made. I still think one day this kinda thing will exist, because the first decent products that crack this and sell it well will corner a certain slice of the market. There will probably always be a place for treadmills because some people like that mindless gameplay (even most single-player CRPGs have a treadmill element to them), but more satisfying forms or gameplay will eventually be there I think for other player types.

    I can understand people hating ALL previous and current MMO titles, but that's a very different thing, I reckon, from drawing the conclusion that no MMORPG will ever be good.
     
  3. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    I have no doubts that MMORPG's could be what you just described Fatman, but until I get to play something which drastically changes my view of them, I'll remain a hardcore fan of singleplayer.

    My irritation stems from the fact that companies put all their efforts in creating MMORPG's when they could make quality singleplayer material for me. The last singleplayer title Blizzard released was Diablo II, and that was a while back.
     
  4. Sheriff Fatman

    Sheriff Fatman Active Member

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    Funny you should mention that. A huge proportion of the Diablo II success was people playing online.
     
  5. Vyenna

    Vyenna New Member

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    Personally, I don't like MMORPGs 'cause I don't like people. When playing Guild Wars, I'd rather take the NPC henchmen than other players.

    Annoying bastards.
     
  6. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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    Such a blast from the past having sheriff back. If I actually knew where the fuck arcanum was I might turn back into the idealistic modder I used to be. Sucks about that short and long term memory shit.

    *lights a spliff*

    EDIT:
    According to the poll results, either 9 out of 11 people are that excited about polls, OR when faced with two meaningless choices, the vast majority of people will just pick option one so that they don't get asked the question again.

    I'd say three cheers for the apathetic majority, but we'd probably only get through one before we all decided to go try to have sex with someone/thing.
     
  7. MatahChuah

    MatahChuah New Member

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  8. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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  9. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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    What's so disturbing? That I'm contemplating idealism, or that I came up with something and shared the knowledge freely, without patenting it and using it solely to tighten my albeit caringly, gentle stranglehold on most of civilization?
     
  10. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm talking about all of the senior members randomly coming back en masse.
     
  11. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

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    Oh, yea, shit, maybe it is the apocalypse. That IS a coincidence.


    You know, you might actually be hitting on something... The signs are mostly there, and if you need more evidence: I have a girlfriend now. Like... only one.
     
  12. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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  13. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    Lo folks.


    Just came back to say that yes, you're right. The apocalypse is at hand, and we're all going to die.

    Or, at least, you're all going to die. You'll know I was talking to you when the rider kicks in your front door.

    How're y'all doing?
     
  14. Vyenna

    Vyenna New Member

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  15. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    It's good to see you too, Vyenna. I've missed this place (once again, hrmm...)

    Anyway, this time I've decided to stay and post and stuff. I really need a forum to let out all my agressions in. And this is just the right place.
     
  16. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Administrator Staff Member

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    I like that I get all the blame for this. I'm not even the one who banned Sheriff Fatman from the Codex or DAC. Actually, I'm not even the one who banned Steampunk. I'm pretty sure that was mathboy initially and then every subsequent time too.

    Mind you, I do like getting credit for it all. It means I can sit back and keep doing nothing, while all the other admins ban everyone and then watch as the banned users bitch and moan about what small role I may or may not have had in it. Getting a reputation without actually having to do anything for it does have its perks.
     
  17. Jungle Japes

    Jungle Japes Well-Known Member

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    No, no, you've got it all wrong. It's not the Apocalypse.

    It's the dawning of the Age of Aquarius!
     
  18. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Well-Known Member

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    Holy shit, it actually IS the Apocalypse!
     
  19. Telcontar

    Telcontar Well-Known Member

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    We will only be complete in saying that when Jarinor comes back.
     
  20. Sofokl

    Sofokl New Member

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    Or when all those Zens, friend_als and all other Eldest come back
     
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