Getting off my emperor seat

aka fighting the urge to play Civ 3.


I really didn’t think that any game could actually get me to play it all day long again and thinking what I should do next while not at the computer. Civ 3 is a great game, unfortunately there are some drawbacks.

1. Your rivals – they should be called a fucking alliance vs lone player rather. It annoyed me that my rivals never got into quarrels and fights against each other. They had no problems agreeing on getting right of passage of mutual protection acts among themselves – when I asked for one seldom did they agree. Also throughout a whole campaign there was only one, and very short at that, war among two of my rivals.

2. I am willing to agree that computer players exchange tech for nothing among themselves. I switched to republic and then to democracy asap, spent humongous sums of money on research and guess what – even some stupid Persians with their lousy 5 cities are my tech equals.

3. Perhaps I don’t understand this game but it seriously pissed me off that it’s virtually impossible to determine which unit will win. I mean how the hell can my full health elite cavalry or mech infantry loose with some stupid conscript. I know there are terrain defense bonuses but pikemen dealing damage to modern armor veteran is just plain stupid. On the other hand cavalry with attack 6 def 3 killed my city stationed&fortified infantry which respective stats are 6&10. Needless to say my cavalry stands no chance in such a battle. And all this on chieftan difficulty level.

4. I sincerely hate it that everything is determined at the beginning of your turn. Let’s say you have to vet mech infantry attacking a city defended by two regular infantry units. Your first mech inf unit will deal no damage the second one will hit defender for 2 bars. Reload – it’s the same. It goes for bombings and whatnot as well. Zero randomness – every single time the very same units will deal the very same amount of damage. If bombing fails it will fail even if you reload 10 times. If planting a spy failed it will fail regardless how many times in a given turn you try it.

5. Money – you need too much money for sabotage/ tech steal missions. I’d have to cancel all funding for citizens&science to afford any of these.

6. I really miss diplomat unit. Or any other which could explore enemy territory w/o arousing suspicion.

7. I would like more diplomacy. I want to build my sentences from a set of given words so that I could say either “We’re worried with your units within our borders� or “Unless you immediately withdraw I will presume it declaration of war and other countries will learn you’re the aggressor.

I want more politics – for example fighting the global warming. Countries which produce a lot of pollution should pay for it.

If some nation frequently sends its units within my boarders I would like to be albe to set part or whole of my terrain off-limits for that nation meaning that should they send their unit in once more they’ll be considered aggressors and trigger war automatically.

Possession of nukes, esp icbm, should be an important factor as to how other countries regard you. At least 3 countries should be able, once they have nukes, to sign anti nuke alliance which would mean that they are bound to fight anyone trying to build them.

I would like to make deals as regarding wars. Say these cities go for you, these for me and our alliance will until both of us achieve our goals.


Now I have three questions:

1. Can I rearrange army ie remove units from it? Or at least upgrade my units which are in the army?

2. How do I search for spies in my country?

3. Which difficulty level is the best to see some hostile interaction between your rivals rather than alliance against you?


I want to make it clear that I still do consider Civ 3 a great game regardless of all the drawbacks. Esp. that in with respect to diplomacy there is no other game who would introduce it at least to an equal extent.

 

I love the way that whatever luxury items I have are worthless. Sample trade agreement:

Them
*Dyes

Me
*Furs
*Wine
*Silks
*Democracy

Why? This makes no sense whatsoever. At first I thought it was that the dyes were super-expensive, but when I control Dyes I still have to make this kind of ridiculous deal. Where's the balance?

I also hate having to click twice just to change the amount of money one side is offering. Why not just put in a scroller bar and add/subtract money from the amount directly? As it is, you remove it from the table, then re-add it and change the number. I don't understaaaaaaaaaaand.

 

civ

Those are some good ideas Dragoon. Maybe you should send them to the makers as you have pointed out the same things that make it hard for me to become a constant civ player.

1- The alliances against each other can work. I play on the 2nd or 3rd one up, as i believe it just far to insane at higher level, anyway my neighbours attacked me and before they got everyone on me i got one half of the world to attack them and the other half to attack there ally. All it takes is 200-500 dollars to start a world war that will last for 100 years and you dont even have to join in on it till the end, after everyone has blown each other apart.

2- Agree with the tech thing. Get there techs and trade them with everyone and if you give one to one nation give it to all, even your enemies as they will get it anyway.

3- Bow and arrow shouldn't be able to beat a tank but it happens.

4- Im not so bothered with the non-random attacks for each turn if the tank isnt destroyed by a spearman.

5- I've never used the sabotage/steal thing, maybe it's because of the cost.

6- I hated the diplomat and spy unit.

7- I AGREE! Also i would like it that the computer didn't build cities in the middle of your area. You know the places that arn't that great for building but you landmark for future city sites. Now if they had a function where you could occupy an area with troops and made it imposible to build near would be good. That would mean you wouldn't have to build a crappy city on every new spot you discover. I hate shitty little cities that fall apart from curruption and bring the moral down for everyone. Militery bases with influence would be good.

Fighting global warning just isnt an option. I never build factories because everyone else dose and thats just the end. You need some sort of Kyoto pact system.

I agree with your boarded incursion idea

The stopping of weapons of mass destruction is a good one and very true in modern times.

Questions.
1. I dont think you can rearrange but you can upgrade, upgradable units.
2. Never thought you could search for spies. its a success or fail thing for the spier isn't it?
3. Just make friends with your enemies enemies. it just happens.

 

The AI<-->AI tech trading pissed me off as well. You have to trade off every tech you have to get new ones, so it's no good holding back on your technology. Which is really sad, cause it eliminates one of my favorite ways of playing Civ games, namely focusing on Science early and being ahead of the other civs. It's not even realistic, to just hand out your newly discovered unique technology in exchange for something you might not even need.

I play on the difficulty called "Regent" i think it is. The only thing wrong with it is that the computer players cheat horribly, so even if you have the perfect spot for a city, with plenty of food, and work towards getting a second city as fast as possible, the damn Persians will still have a Settler prancing around your cities before you're done producing your Settler, even if their capitol is lying in the middle of the desert surrounded by mountains. And they'll probably be technologically advanced and richer than you. And happier. And more cultural.

 

Dragoon, the coming expansion pack addresses some of those worries - specifically the building in your territory and the tech trading at the very least I believe. At any rate, the ex pack sounds really cool, and I shall be getting it. I'll just have to do it after my exams.

 

Yeah, the ex-pack seems like it'll help on most of those things. I have to admit I'm with Carlstar on the units/combat thing - it never bothered me. I'm good at rationalising problems out of apparent existence.

The pikemen almost always do lose to armour. On those occasions they don't, I reckon they must have used Ewok style log traps.

About the save/reload - Wasn't that the same in Civ2? I think it is deliberate. If you save/reload too often, you wouldn't enjoy the game as much, I think. Plus, you should be practicising hardcore rules, because I won't be letting you replay the results of battles against me while you're kicking my arse online.

 

How do I do that? I know how to upgrade ordinary units but how do I upgrade those already within an army?

Civilopedia mentions such a possibility- I didn't manage to do it so far, though.

We all will - we are civ3 addicts after all, aren't we?

Now that you present it that way I see advantages.

Dragoon's turn

attack

Report: Our army is victorious - you kicked Sheriff's arse.

Reload.

attack

Report: Our army is victorious - you kicked Sheriff's arse.

Reload...


On a sidenote Sheriff, I don't know if Civ editor enables unit design but if it does you should get yourself Battle Donkey Divisions.




A few more things I missed last time:

8. I'd like to be able to wake a group o units. For example wake all bombers.

9. I'd like to design work schedule for workers - Make a road from this city to that one via a route of my choice.

10. Civ 3 MUST have following warnings no the box

a) It's highly addictive&time consuming

b) It may turn you into a racist. So far I'm restraining myself but I already call Shaka a trechesous, dirty bastard on regular basis. Mao got his share of my anger too. Just like Elisabeth - she's one tough queen b..., ok let's just leave it at that.

 

Actually, I don't think you can. My Immortals armies are always obsolete a mere 7 or 8 centuries after putting them into the army, and then my great leader is saddled with them.

This is great idea if possible. I've not used the editor. If it IS possible, we should all have a unique unit each for online battling. What would some others be?

Milo could have a Infantry with a Silly March or Kung Pow Masters.

Jarinor could have an Angry Old Men unit

Jinxed could have Anime Swordsmen or something.

Retard could have the Lawnmower Division.

Maybe you could have those crack philosphers from that joke I posted a while back.

This has real potential.

 

*wonders off to "who needs a laugh" thread hoping to learn there what Sheriff reffered to.*

 

I use the editor so the Iron and Oil and other strategic resources donot disappear. Than I also increase the change of all resources appearance in the
game. I also edit my civation the babylonians to have all six trait, plus all special unit like the panzer unit. I also set it so all my builting increase income, lubury, and science by 50% inclul the city wall, barracks. Plus I did
more than I can remember now.

 

I also think they trie than lots of new idear without doing than lots of testing.
I like the Culture flip rules as it did happen many time in history it than pity that too many player complain about it. No civilization in history that last any
length of time was purely militaristic only. Culture was than inportant part of
all civilization that lastly any lenght of time. The biggest culture flip happen when the Arab conquest the middle east then control by the Eastern Roman Empire. There was than religious fight taken place between the one who workship Icons and those that didnot. The Arab back then allow free workship
to the Christian in the conquest land. The Emporous who was than anti-iconist
appoint new bishots to inpose his view on the Christian in the occupty land.
It back fire so badly that it alienlate the Christian in the holyland so badly that their ask the arab to protect then from their former rular and bishops
who execute any christian who refuse to change their view. Many christian change over time to Islam of they own free will there was no convert by the sword( that was than myth created by anti-Islamic) 40 year lately when the same emporous trie to composeisn with the christian that where left these it was too late. Enventual the Greek church went back to workhipping Icon. By that time 90% of the people of the holyland where muslin. The muslin in the beginning where only like 1% of 1% of the population of the Holyland.

 

In other words, you rape, torture and murder the game, and then proceed to play it? :nod:


I don't see how custom designed units could be made by average people. You'd have to actually make all the graphics for walking, fighting and dieing, and that'd take some skill. Unless of course they release some very complex, yet easy to use tools for the purpose...

 

hmm..time to borrow Civ3 from my cousin i guess 8)

 

I tell you....the biggest thing that pissed me off about Civ3 was that the AI would plop down a city in your territory and, unless you delcared war, nothing happened. Meanwhile, if you plopped a city down in the AI's territory, they declared war. Automatically. As soon as you click the build order button, the advisor pops up and says, "Sir this will cause war! Do you still want to build?" So if you build there, they hate you and will wage war. And if you bitch about them building in YOUR territory, they will hate you and wage war..........God this pisses me off to no end....

But NOOOOOOoooOOO!!!!! Mr. Hammurrabi will just march his little Babylonian ass in and park his city anywhere in my boundaries he chooses. And he expects to get off scot-free. So if you declare war, he hates you. He will also employ the likes of Queen Elizabeth the Moody, and Montezuma to wage war against you. Why? ALL BECAUSE HE PUT A CITY IN YOUR TERRITORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! puff....pufff....... wheeze......gotta...calm down..... just..push submit........

 

Yep that can seriously piss off. I had 2 citites at a small peninsula and Baylonians added their 3. I had to fight to get my bloody own peninsula back. I hat it that I’m forced to make cities even in some stupid jungle and get disease reports more often than I’d like to. But hey I have to do it or they’ll occupy my nation’s lebensraum.

One more thing:

11. At the beginning there should be some possibilities to hinder other nations in order to get equal chances. For example set affixed regimes your rivals will develop to and stay with them. Like China getting to Communism and sticking with it.


Sheriff

Regarding your units I didn’t find your joke (not that I looked very hard for it). Did you even post it in who needs a laugh?

Now to units

I think Milo might have Saracen(?) Suicide Platoons (Brian’s life by Monthy Python)

I could have hordes of lawyers at my disposal.

 

Then why release the editor it you didnot want people to use it. I got tries of discover Iron tech and loseing the onlt iron resouse I have as soon as I
discover Iron Tech. Temple brought in alot of wealth to the cities they where built in.

 

There are people out there making custom units. It wasn't super hard to do, more like a small pain in the ass.

What you have to do is create a little animated pic in Adobe Image Ready or some other similiar GIF animating program. You had to follow a certain set of rules so that the game could use them.

Once you had this animation, you used CivEdit to change one of the existing units to have whatever qualities you wanted it to have. Then you changed the animation to the one you made.

 

That is one of the coolest signatures i've ever seen Milo.

Yeah, that's what i was thinking. I have no actual graphics skills, so i wouldn't even know where to start on a thing such as that.

If you change your own civ (babylonians in this case) to be superior then that defeats the real purpose of choosing your own civ in the first place. And city improvements should cost money, not make money. Your games must be overwith very fast.

 

army of one

About the upgrading armies thing. I upgraded something like pike men to muskets to rifle men. Maybe they have to all be the same unit. If you have the likes of swordsmen then you cant upgrade them because they just become obsolette.

Who knows maybe it was all a dream. All i remember was that i was Chinesse had an ass load of armies for some reason and didnt sleep much and forgot to eat because of those damn roman, indians and egyptians.

So it seems everyone hates the building in your land thing. Some people consider it an act of war and get an alliance organised to help.

Im still for military bases with influence to stop it

 

D'oh! That's right, I remember working this all out before; the reason I couldn't upgrade my armies was because they were Immortals and therefore not upgradable. I can't think why I forgot that. Maybe it's because I'm a tit