Frigo's Ramblings On Single Statistic Minmaxing

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by Frigo, Mar 27, 2011.

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  1. Frigo

    Frigo Active Member

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    Ever played a deliberately nerfed character on hardest setting? Now you can take it to the extreme!

    For the last few hours I've been playing around with the character creation screen trying to minimize or maximize certain initial statistics by finding appropriate race, gender and background combinations, and ignoring other statistics, nor spending the initial 5 character points.
    Obviously I also calculated the minimum and maximum attainable initial stats for each race and gender combination, I'll scan and upload that later.
    Base statistics less than 1 still count as 1 in every calculation I have seen, except when you try to increase them by investing character points. Correct me if I am wrong.
    All testing was done with 1.0.7.4 + UAP.


    Strength: -1 / 18
    Constitution: 1 / 14
    Dexterity: 2 / 12
    Beauty: 0 / 15
    Intelligence: -4 / 14
    Willpower: 5 / 16
    Perception: 7 / 13
    Charisma: 0 / 14

    Carry Weight: 500 / 9000
    Damage Bonus: -4 / 8
    AC Adjustment: -8 / 2
    Speed: 2 / 12
    Heal Rate: 1 / 5
    Poison Recovery: 1 / 14
    Reaction Modifier: -65 / +25
    Maximum Followers: 1 / 3

    Health, Fatigue and Other Complicated Stuff: ???



    = The Cool Stuff =


    == Strength -1 ==
    - Halfling Male + Sheltered Childhood (8-3-0-6) (base + racial modifier + gender modifier + background modifier)
    == Strength 0 ==
    - Elf Female + Sheltered Childhood (8-1-1-6)
    == Strength 1 ==
    - Human female + Sheltered Childhood (8-0-1-6)
    - Elf Male + Sheltered Childhood (8-1-0-6)
    - Half-Elf Female + Sheltered Childhood (8-0-1-6)

    These combinations are perfect to fulfill your nerdy fighter/barbarian fantasies completely realistically! You can stand up to bullies and monsters! Well at least once, anyway.


    == Constitution 1 ==
    - Elf Male + Miracle Operation (8-2-0-5)
    - Gnome Male + Miracle Operation (8-2-0-5)

    Your perfect tanks!


    == Dexterity 2 ==
    - Human Male + Frankeinstein Monster (8-0-0-6)
    - Half-Orc Male + Frankeinstein Monster (8-0-0-6)

    Should make good sports partners.


    == Beauty 0 ==
    - Half-Orc Male + Beat With An Ugly Stick (8-2-0-6)
    - Half-Orc Female + Beat With An Ugly Stick (8-2-0-6)
    == Beauty 1 ==
    - Half-Ogre Male + Beat With An Ugly Stick (8-1-0-6)

    I can already see their inner beauty! Nothing else though, it seems my eyes burned out somehow.


    == Intelligence -4 ==
    - Half-Ogre Male + Raised In The Pits (8-4-0-6)
    - Half-Ogre Male + Feral Child (8-4-0-6)

    Quick witted, pleasant conversation partners.
    Since there are no other racial intelligence modifiers, the second worst intelligence is 2, a rather huge gap.


    == Willpower 5 ==
    - Anyone except Elves and Gnomes + Ran Away With The Circus (8-0-0-3)

    No pussies in Arcanum
    There are only 3 racial modifiers for willpower, all positive, not possible to play a weak willed bastard. Especially since there are no check against it. Pity, it has quite the potential for roleplaying situations.
    You could try to play a Dwarf mage with 5 willpower though, could be fun. Even if you put character points into it, you can't reach spells requiring 18 willpower; some technological chemicals might circumvent this though.


    == Perception 7 ==
    - Anyone + Professional Knife Tosser (8-0-0-1)
    - Anyone + Bookworm (8-0-0-1)
    - Anyone + Run Away With The Circus (8-0-0-1)

    These guys see it coming from a mile away. Perfect recruits for snipers.
    There are absolutely no racial or gender modifiers for perception (should be in my opinion). These three backgrounds have hardly any effect on perception, there could be much heavier backgrounds and related combat and roleplaying situations. Would be interesting to try a near-blind guy with limited sight of the area.
    On a side note, any of these three backgrounds (apart from a possible injury?) is the only situation you would EVER use glasses, they are good only for characters with perception of 7, the lowest you can go. Not sure if there are any injuries at all affecting sight. Also, it would be nice to know when you swap -1 perception helmet to such glasses, this perception check occurs before or after you take off the helmet.


    == Charisma 0 ==
    - Half-Orc Male + Raised By Orcs (8-2-0-6)
    - Half-Orc Female + Raised By Orcs (8-2-0-6)

    Entertaining social people, usually found in huge parties/gangs.
    Would be nice to see if Virgil joins these characters. [Yes, yes he does, see the Maximum Followers section. Idiot Virgil, talking to so rude strangers]


    == Carry Weight 500 ==
    - Anyone with a Strength of 1 or less, see above

    It seems it follows straight from the formula Strength * 500. Haven't found any background that modifies it, at least definitely not in the original Arcanum or UAP.


    == Damage Bonus -4 ==
    - Anyone with a Strength of 2 or less, see above for 1 or less, and these for 2:
    - Human Male + Sheltered Childhood (8-0-0-6)
    - Half-Elf Male + Sheltered Childhood (8-0-0-6)
    - Gnome Male + Sheltered Childhood (8-0-0-6)
    - Half-Orc Female + Sheltered Childhood (8-0-0-6)

    Formula seems to be floor((Strength - 9) / 2), not sure what influences it ingame.


    == AC Adjustement -8 ==
    - Anyone with a Dexterity of 2 or less, see above

    Formula seems to be Dexterity - 10, not sure what influences it ingame.


    == Speed 2 ==
    - Anyone with a Dexterity of 2 or less, see above

    Seems to be the same as Dexterity initially, but we all know it is heavily influenced by various items and spells.


    == Heal Rate 1 ==
    - Anyone with Constitution of 4 or less, too many to mention

    Formula seems to be floor((Constitution + 1) / 3), not sure what influences it ingame


    == Poison Recovery 1 ==
    - Anyone with Constitution of 1 or less, see above

    Seems to be the same as Constitution, not sure what influences it ingame


    == Reaction Modifier -65 ==
    - Half-Orc Male + Beat With An Ugly Stick (see explanation)
    - Half-Orc Female + Beat With An Ugly Stick (see explanation)
    - Half-Ogre Male + Beat With An Ugly Stick (see explanation)

    The character creation screen suggests the default -3 (Elf, Half-Elf), -7 (Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling), -12 (Half-Ogre) and -18 (Half-Orc) reaction modifiers are racial modifiers. No, they are not. They are entire dependent on Beauty:
    1 -> -65
    2 -> -52
    3 -> -42
    4 -> -33
    5 -> -25
    6 -> -18
    7 -> -12
    8 -> -7
    9 -> -3
    10 -> 0
    11 -> 3
    12 -> 7
    13 -> 12
    14 -> 18
    15 -> 25
    16 -> 33
    17 -> 42
    18 -> 52
    19 -> 65
    20 -> 100
    There is some relation between adjacent values, but this breaks down near the boundaries. No closed formula exists, they probably implemented it as some lookup table.


    == Maximum Followers 1 ==
    - Anyone

    Despite it being based on Charisma, with the formula Charisma / 4, even characters with Charisma less than 4 can have a follower. This advantage can be further exploited by characters with Charisma less than 8 (Dwarf and Half-Orc) who do not plan to increase their Charisma further; these characters can get the Educator background and retain their single companion.



    = The Powergamer Stuff =

    I'm too tired and won't have time in the next days, I'll edit this in the near future...
     
  2. Xyle

    Xyle Member

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    There is a curse that lowers PE. And the glasses say less than 7 which would require 6 or less.


    I played a character with a background of Miracle Operation that I used for learning guns as guns use PE instead of ST. Is that contrary to the spirit of "nerfing" your character?
     
  3. Frigo

    Frigo Active Member

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    Nah, it's most definitely "PE <8 +1 else -1". Can't remember the curse though. Will look into it, my cursed character hasn't got it yet :(

    Obviously when you exploit the advantages of a certain combination you are plainly minmaxing or powergaming, not playing a nerfed character.

    Try playing a character whose combat style is based on a deliberately minimized statistic, if it is possible at all. That's the ultimate nerfing =)
    Especially if you don't put any points into it, nor gain any mastery.

    *goes back to translating KS and writing his thesis*
     
  4. Viktor_Berg

    Viktor_Berg New Member

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    It's plenty possible to complete the game with following minimized primary statistics without severe gameplay and story penalties:

    Strength if you play a bowyer or a gunslinger.
    Willpower as long as you don't use magick.
    Constitution if you don't play as a mage or a melee fighter.
    Perception if you're fine with a bit limited FOV and ignore guns.
    Charisma if you're a lone wolf and okay with not getting some of the good endings.
    Beauty if you're fine with people hating your guts and/or have reaction bonuses from elsewhere.
    Dexterity if you play a charismatic leader with plenty of followers who do the fighting for you.

    Intelligence minimizing produces the dumb playthrough, which while being entirely entertaining and funny, places some serious constraints on the storyline of the game.

    Now, combining several of these might be more challenging, indeed.
     
  5. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    ... whereas I still maintain that having a dismal Constitution really isn't much of a disadvantage for a wizard. Potions aren't that hard on your purse (especially if you invest in Haggle) and once you possess a good staff you might as well be coughing blood after climbing a flight of stairs.
     
  6. Drog Alt

    Drog Alt Member

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    There was a pretty funny bug in the vanilla game that was fixed in the UAP. CN1 resulted in heal rate of 0. That is, you would never wake up if you pass out. Cast a few spells and it's game over.
     
  7. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    I recall a thread where someone played with a scrawny elven assassin like that. A CN of 1, barely the ST to dress himself, relied on Prowling and Backstab to get by. Somehow managed to kill the cursed Paladin and all his buddies. Respect.
     
  8. Frigo

    Frigo Active Member

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    There is a way to drink potions even if you passed out. If I remember correctly, it was either inventory & rightclick on potion, or inventory & drag potion to use. Unless you fixed this in UAP.

    Wow, my uttermost respect to this guy.


    Damn, we really need a wiki for all these exploits and feats and characters
     
  9. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    The greater the player's AC, the greater the chance that the enemy will miss during an attack.

    Heal Rate = how many fatigue point you regenerate each 10 seconds = how many health points are regained during each hour of sleep outdoors = how many health points are regained during each half an hour of sleep in a bed.

    Poison Recovery x 2 = by how many points does the poison level decrease every 15 seconds.

    The glasses always worked positively on characters with PE < 8, even when the incorrect description from pre-UAP Arcanum said PE < 7.
     
  10. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    I find the Bookworm background, with spectacles, to be really good for role playing.

    For some reason, it makes the character come to life for me, imagining him despair about the loss of his glasses in the crash, and rushing to the shops to replace them, and wearing the same crappy specs with any armor or suit.
     
  11. Frigo

    Frigo Active Member

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    Obviously I know what they do, I only lack knowledge whether they have any in-game modifier (at least permanent; armor, spells and hexed items influence em)
     
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