Fastest completion time?

Discussion in 'Dungeons & Dragons Discussion Forum' started by Jarinor, Oct 22, 2003.

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  1. Jarinor

    Jarinor New Member

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    Being the nasty guy I am, I naturally decided to be evil first off when playing through ToEE...and found to my disappointment that the evil part of the game is sadly under-developed. With only 3 guys, I was able to complete the game in 6 and a half hours, beginning to end. Now, I know it won't be like this for good parties, and there were still some things I could have done (like actually exploring the Temple some more instead of just doing one set of quests in there and heading straight towards - I didn't know it at the time though - the finish), but 6 and a half hours is about how long it takes someone to beat Max Payne 2, and that ain't cool.

    On the other hand, found a bitching sword, so my next party will definitely have someone with a specialisation ready and waiting for it :).
     
  2. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    At what level were you when you finished? I mean, you appearently skipped a good deal of sidequests, but seen in the light that you only had 3 characters, you might has weell have reached the level cap anyway.

    Did you use the traditional Warrior - Cleric - Rogue combo?
     
  3. Jinxed

    Jinxed Active Member

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    ToEE is the only game which makes weird parties fun to play. Why do you think they skipped so many portraits missing out on the common races a bit? That game is daring us to start a party of half-orc dumb berserker barbarians. Too bad there isn't enough orcish voice acting to choose from. Heh, damn funny that would be.

    Yeah, agree, the combination of: <Fighter><Cleric><Mage><Rouge><Battle-Mage/Extra Fighter>

    Is very common in Crpgs. That's because dumb games like BG or other half assed RPGs force us to.
    FO 1, FO 2, Arcanum and TToE all show signs of extreme similarity. However, looking closer we can see...

    Let's look at the first one, Fallout.

    Features:
    • A legendary setting. No one dares to argue about it, a true gem.
    • The character development system was one on the major factors in raising the CRPG industry back from the dead: it wasn't AD&D.
    • The combat was TURN BASED. Pretty straight forward, but how rewarding.
    • Great music that fit the setting.
    • It was a bit buggy, but nothing really serious. The game wasn't rushed.
    • No multiplayer. Online gaming wasn't that popular back then with a lot of folks still on dialup.

    (I'll skip on FO 2 since it was a copy of FO done by someone else)

    Arcanum:
    • Another great setting. While other companies create games based on worlds that already have their gods, legendary castles to loot, big bag guys to remove, kings, queens and even the weather, Arcanum was original. Astonishing work.
    • The new engine and system created for the game were slightly questionable. The system used was set on rapid advancement from level to level untill an xp cap was reached at level 50. The "for hit" experience rule seemed like a flaw more than a feature to me. Steam (the script system) was bugged but the game came with an editor. Kept the beaks closed it did.
    • Most of the gripes about bugs disappeared after the first patch was already installed on our copies because it was released a couple of days after the game hit the shelves. Guess what? The editor was patched as well.
    • Horrible balance problems and a combat system which offered 3 types of settings. Fast TB, TB and REAL TIME. The game had multiplayer available which made the balance go haywire.
    • It was also rushed.
    • The graphics and music weren't that great but got the job done.

    Last but not least, ToEE:

    • Greyhawk: ToEE is a setting and a world any of us can buy at a bookstore that sells AD&D. Yeah, the system is AD&D 3.5 E. Most means of being original went down the drain.
    • Beautiful graphics, excellent music.
    • Surprisingly, the system turns out to be good. That's how ToEE throws a shadow over the other games using similar systems that have been released before it. In other words, it actually sticks to the rules instead of being a hack n' slash save/load fest. In ToEE, we are able to be tactical in our combat again. The knight in shining, silver armor TURN BASED is victorious over his opponet the black knight REAL TIME.
    • The lack of deep a storyline. If you got this game because you were certain you would get something close to the only other good AD&D game released by BlackIsle Studios "PlaneScape: Torment", you wouldn't find anything.
    • An incredible baggage of bugs. If there was a paladin questing to slay the most bugged game ever, this product would be #1 on his hit list. In fact, there's so much bugs that many people aren't able to finish it, get stuck after a few hours of gaming or even can't start the thing.
    • Yet again another game rushed.
    • No multiplayer.

    I think Troika is undergoing some kind of evolution. If you would combine the good aspects of each product it would be a "master work item".
    Could this mean that the Troika team is experimenting in new fields but at the same time keeping a certain common denominator? Will the next Troika game feature it's best aspects? (in exception with Vampire)

    As to the original question of the thread, I have no idea. Right now I'm stuck in the chapter entitled "The game crashes 5 minutes after starting".
     
  4. Jinxed

    Jinxed Active Member

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    After testing Lionheart, I can only say this:

    You are better off giving money to the street bum than bying that game.

    When Baldurs Gate was born, it wasn't that well received. It was part two that hit some sort of entry in the gamer's diary. I'm really not sure why; If anyone likes BG it's because of the music and setting. The game had a "beginner party" feel as I like to call it. The story wasn't remotely compelling and was even more shit in BG2, IWD and IWD2. The engine used in all of those games was crap from day 1. Real time combat made the game something more of a manual challenge than the use of any real tactics. The graphics were crap. Although I must say that most illustrations for items were really nice and detailed. So, a whole bunch of sales, years and experience behind their backs the good ole devs were giving their shot at combining what they thought was the best recipe for succes:

    SPECIAL(the system used in fallout) + REAL TIME.(major flaw of all infinity engine games)

    And what did we get? Your typical infinity engine game. You begin in captivity and you discover that you are somehow special. You need to escape and are off to explore the game. Doesn't sound that bad does it? Wait till you try playing the game 5 minutes. Fucken A'. I couldn't bare the game longer than that. You run around like a deranged sprinter and slay the occasional evil doer and ultimately getting around to kill the big boss. That doesn't sound bad in itself either right? Well maybe if it had GOOD graphics instead of total crap it would work. Of course, then you have shitty music, real time combat that doesn't make sense and the game is just too darn fast.

    Stay away from this game if you know what's good for you. Even 5 hours that will be wasted because of a crash in ToEE are better than 10 minutes of Lionheart.
     
  5. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    Jinxed, did you actually buy Lionheart? In that case, I really do feel sorry for you.

    I've tried it myself - have a friend who always have nice things out on his ftp that I can download, .bin files of games for one thing - daemontools is godsent!

    Anwyay, I tried Lionheart, and it didn't even take me five minutes to figure out that the game wasn't for me. One combat was all it took...

    Can't agree with you on the graphics though - those were pretty nice I think. Too bad that the game as a whole sucked...
     
  6. Shadygrove

    Shadygrove New Member

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    I liked Lionheart. Still do. I admit, I am using it as a vechile to learn RTC, & now I no longer suck at RTC. But it has good points.

    The charcter creation is the best part. Barcolona is non linear & almost as good as any one town or city in Arcanum or Fallout II. The graphic quality is great, and not just for a 600 X 800 game. Different shields look different when equipped. Ditto helmet, armor, & weapons. Fireflys & ripples in pools. Good roleplaying aspects as well. A lot of good voice acting, but all non union.

    The bad parts. Quite linear hack & slash after Barcolina. Almost no interaction with followers. They cannot mule for you, you cannot equip them, indeed keeping followers alive is quite the chalenge. Some quests seem have missing solutions. You can have enough sneak to tiptoe past wolves in the forest, but you will never get past two particular guards. That one takes only a little speech skill or homicide, no other solution need apply. You cannot talk your way through another quest despite dialog when you take on the quest that indicates a negotatior's solution. Even with speech over 200 (max 300, 160? 180? is all you are said to need for the final boss), you cannot come up with a simple lie for that one.

    It seems as if they wrote 1/2 the game & kicked it out the door, but the 1/2 you get is decent. A few reviews gave it 70%, about right IMHO.

    I would not recomend this game untill it hits the bargain shelves or gets an expansion to complete it. Unless you have an abundant discressionary income, then buy it & patch it. It has a lot to like, it just could have & should have been so much more.
     
  7. Jarinor

    Jarinor New Member

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    I got to about level 5 or so - I hit level 4 in Nulb, I remember that much. The party I was using was a Fighter, Monk, Wizard, no followers. Fighter was my main combatant, with diplomatic abilities, monk was back-up fighter with sneaking abilities, wizard was my spellcaster, and ultimately useful in only a few places. I swear, I have to remember to use spells in this game, because otherwise I'll just blunder in weapon first (which usually works mind you).

    I have a larger party now who've hit a brick wall in one of the nodes. I'll let you guess where :). Also have another LN party going through, with a fighter/monk/cleric combo. Fighters and monks work really well together (okay, they're my 3 favourite classes. Sue me). I've also got an all-cleric party ready to play with, but I have tests soon, so I can't really devote myself to playing this game 24/7, much as I'd love to.
     
  8. Jinxed

    Jinxed Active Member

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    If not for the Fireball spell this game would be really tough. I went down as deep as level 3 of the temple and I must say that fireball rocks. Or another spell called Ice Storm or something. Basically, anything that you can cast with area damage behind enemy lines is a really good thing.

    I started with a druid now a paladin instead of a barbarian and a monk instead of a ranger. I'm pretty satisfied about the party. I will not take druids again though.
     
  9. Jarinor

    Jarinor New Member

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    I don't use fireball. Spugnoir doesn't learn it, and I've never taken a wizard/sorc high enough myself to get it. Ice storm is very nice against fire creatures though.
     
  10. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    Jar Jar, if you brought your party up to lv5 you were high level enough to have fireball. It's a lv3 spell ;)

    I understand that people find it useful in ToEE. Fireballs have always been my primary choice of artillery power in other D&D games, like BG2, IWD2 and NWN. I especially remembered those delayed fireballs from BG2 - those were nifty!
     
  11. Jinxed

    Jinxed Active Member

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    Yeah, you can bomb the hell out of people with fireballs. It's also great to make some wands.
     
  12. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    What's even greater about that is that you can give those to your rogue or bard. Use Magic Device can be such a glorious skill. If one fireball won't do the trick, nuking'em with another will ;)

    I must say that UMD rarely works for me though. Could of course be that my rogue have so low Cha... :roll:
     
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