So I'm watching Extreme Marksman on the History Channel right now. I've seen it before and what the guys on this show can do is amazing. The man that is up right now can fire his pistol as fast as a machine gun and extremely accurately while blindfolded. I recall that later on in the show there is a man who can shoot aspirin tablets out of the air with a rifle. Seeing this makes me think that the Firearms skill in Arcanum should have been something like this. Perhaps expert mastery should have provided a 15 point or so boost to TH for firearms. Mastery should have maybe been another +5 speed. In any regard, the show is worth watching.
You have to take into consideration that we've had guns in our world for far longer than Arcanum. Also, our gunsmithy is more advanced (save for some of the imaginary guns in Arcanum). If you improved the firearms skill, you'd have to improve the melee skill as well, along with many other skills. Just look at all the amazing swordsmen/martial arts experts around the world.
Sorry, I was referring to this: I was taking it to mean that changing the firearms skill would unbalance the game to the point that the melee skill would be less powerful. However, I think that even with a whole lot of bonuses to firearms, melee is still overpowered. EDIT: Also by "it's rediculous," I was referring to melee, not your post
A better targeting system in general would've been nice. Was the old Fallout one somehow copywritten or were they literally trying to be different? What's there in the finished product seems morel like an afterthought than decent targeting. But I also got the impression that firearms were strangely underpowered. I can understand how a melee weapon could do more damage up close with all the hacking and slashing, but from a distance, a hunting rifle should be able to do as much damage as an axe at close range. I mean, you're sending a metal bullet through a person's chest at about a 900 m/s velocity. Tell me that's gonna do more than 5 dmg from long range compared to an Ultralite Axe's 20 dmg up close.
I always thought that too. I think maybe, the weapons that you build from learned gunsmithy skill were balanced vs. melee weapons, but the found ones never were. If there was time to work on the balancing, they might have been more powerful and more of a match for melee weapons
A gun that should get balanced out is the mechanized rifle (upgraded repeater-rifle). The speed is ok, the damage is ok but the bullet cost is unbelievable. Six bullets per shot? Six? Now two, I'd buy that, but definetly not six.
I agree. Either that, or the damage or speed should be upgraded massively. Then again, if you play a techie thief, you don't've to worry much about bullet cost... I was lugging around 10k bullets at one point... :lol:
Agree with that. If you're going to have a game where all the guns use the same generic bullet type, they should all have similar dmg ranges. Guns aren't like melee weapons where the size, sharpness, curve of the blade, and weight can drastically effect a range of potential damage. A bullet that strikes your chest cavity at 900 m/s will do just as much damage as one at 800 m/s or 1000 m/s. The quality gradient of firearms lies in their rate of fire and range of accuracy, not damage. So it's just as reasonable to see a rusty revolver, revolver, and fine revolver do the same amount of dmg but with a rate of fire and accuracy ranging from poor to good to excellent. Same with a rusty sword, sword, sharpened sword doing a range of 10 to 20 to 30 damage respectably. Now, throw in different jacket types for bullets like in Fallout, and yeah, I can see the need for a wider range in damage from one gun that uses one type to another. But this isn't exactly the case. And I don't think this point would call for as wide a range as is currently observed in the game. Easily my biggest gripe with Arcanum.
Sorry, have to stop you right there...kinda not true (unless by "damage" you mean "killing") While the bullet is the same type in each scenario, it'll deform at a different rate and stop at a different spot depending on its speed. For example, the .357 magnum will commonly shoot at around 550 m/s. If you're using a hollow point round, after the bullet deforms on impact, it'll cause hydrostatic shock and leave the body! An entrance wound of less than a half inch ends up in a gaping hole on the opposite side around 3 inches across. The look if a person who's been hit by a .357 has been described as being "struck by lightning." The bullet's impact actually makes you throw your body into the air. Now, if you fire a .38 cartridge from a .357 (because you can), the bullet will hit and pass through, and you'll have one hell of a sucking chest wound. Will it kill you? Yeah. It won't look as cool as the wound from a .357 though. It's all about muzzle energy. The .357's bullet has almost 1.5 times as much of an impact as a .38, all because it's moving 240 m/s faster. However, on all other points; I agree. For all of the weapons that fire bullets in Arcanum, only one type of bullet is used. I find it extremely hard to believe that an elephant gun is chambered for the same type of bullet as a fine revolver, and that for some reason the elephant gun hits so much harder while shooting the same damn projectile. Adding a bigger barrel will definitely help your accuracy, but won't change the amount of energy leaving the cartridge. And yes, if you have essentially the same gun, but in various states of quality/cleanliness, the only aspects of the gun that should change are the firing speed and accuracy. Then again, if you load six bullets into a blade launcher, an arrow will leave the barrel-despite the fact that wood was never mentioned. It'd be cool to have some variety of ammunition, but maybe the reason guns were simplified was due to deadlines. You're making a game that's supposed to illustrate the tentative balance of magic and technology, and you have to clearly demonstrate both sides. However, sacrifices must be made in order to release the project on time, therefore the bugs inherent in Arcanum. Perhaps another side effect is that certain aspects of the game were never supposed to be planned beyond a certain point, just to give an estimate of a delivery time.
Can you imagine the annoying-factor of that though? Say they make three different sizes of bullets: small, medium, and large. Small works in hand guns, medium works in rifles, and large works in blade launchers/hand cannons, and similar. Can you imagine having to carry around 1000 rounds of each (and, of course, the larger the round, the more the weight per round)? That would get tedious and encumbering.
If guns were more powerful you wouldn't need to carry as much ammo. Of-course then melee fighters would get slaughtered. In the end I don't think you can ever hope to balance firearms and melee weapons because they simply are not balanced. There is a reason nobody fights with swords or spears anymore.
With the fact that you are actually building your own weapons out of parts, I would expect more like 30 different types of ammo. I agree with DarkFool; actually managing that would be even more frustrating than having to manage the dozens of parts currently needed by an expert inventor. I imagine that the conceptual thinking is something like this: first, managing bullet types would be very frustrating, especially since almost all melee weapons require absolutely no charges. For a game, this can be done, but usually with not as much fine detail as might be imagined (I'm thinking Mass Effect; I've never played Fallout.) If you want the role-playing angle, then consider that your character knows what kind of bullet to buy at the store, and actually buys that caliber, not generic bullets. Of course, you might always build new guns while away from cities, but use your imagination.
Well, in game-sense, I was talking about damage. Though I expect in real life I'd be dead either way. I expect that after a certain point of velocity, the type of bullet will cease to matter. For example, I would logically expect that anything traveling at over 2000 m/s (supposing we had a firearm that could shoot that powerfully) would rip a hole clean through your stomach, whether it be a .38 cartridge or a penny. But if I understand correctly, it's not all about the power of the gun, but also the model/substance of the bullet and how it will deform on impact with the target. I know absolutely nothing about guns and ammo so that sheds a lot of light for me. EDIT: Ok. Speed of the bullet also affects deformity, and thus, damage. I just reread that and picked up on it. It's all finally coming together now.
I always thought of it as the player knows a 1/2 a lvl in smithy and can change the caliber of bullets like he can change a helmet gloves and boots to fit a different size person. body armor is apparently to hard to change for just 1/2 a skill.
