Elder Joachim is Molochean Hand

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by symban, Sep 10, 2012.

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  1. symban

    symban New Member

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    I was replaying Arcanum and I decided not to ruin the game by relying on the knowledge from previous plays (probably covering most of the game), that would prevent exploring what little is left I yet to see. So I decided to play very slowly by going through things instead of passing conversations and giving decisions based on prior knowledge. Then I noticed something interesting; too many coincidences about Elder Joachim, being at the right place at the right time, knowing too much and being targeted by the Hand himself when there is no reason at all.

    It began with my suspicion on the man who came to my aid right after the assault on blimp. (I remembered Morte from Torment here) so decided not to place too much trust in him. He says he was here to study an altar. Sure sound ok for a pilgrim. But after deciding that he is no idiot, the fact he cant recite what little was on the altar directed me to conclude that he did not spent much time here at altar (as there is literally nothing else to do but study that altar). Moreover we learn we are at least a day away from nearest village, so he would not come and go easily. Therefore he must have come here very recently after a days travel. And the conversation Virgil has with the Hand assasin near altar just brings more suspicion on himself for the fact that he fits into this "too much coincidence you being here right now". Then the blame pass to Elder Joachim as apparently it was him who sent Virgil to the altar.

    So possibilities;
    1. Both Virgil and Joachim are together in this, and they knew blimp would be assaulted when and where; and they have an agenda about it.
    2. Virgil is a faithful pilgrim who placed his trust in Joachim, and Joachim is in the plot of blimp assault.
    3. They are both innocent and just coincidentally came into the picture. (this was what I took for granted until that play)

    Then we head to the Shrouded Hills, and several other facts weaken just coincidence choice.
    1. Joachim is not from here, he came recently with Virgil and was staying at inn meanwhile. So they are not from here, and they happened to pick to come the town to study that altar at the time when a blimp would be assaulted near it.
    2. There is no active Panarii temple at the town. Old one is housing a steam engine. So why exactly they traveled to this little town without even a temple. To be able to send his pilgrim to study a small altar in the middle of nowhere? (Later we will learn that all those scripts are already gathered in Archaeon and no need to travel there to study at all)
    3. Most important reason to suspect. In all of Shrouded Hills, Joachim is the only person who was attempted to be killed by the Hand assassins.
    I always discarded this as it might be anything. The assassins after me, are the same people who assaulted the blimp. I do not know the reason yet, but most probably to bury some knowledge carried by a certain someone on the blimp(which proves to be true later). If Joachim is assaulted as well it means he is enemy of the assassins because he was a friend of the person(s) who had that information, and he sent Virgil for protection maybe.

    But as the story advance we learn that this is not the case at all. Joachim had no way of knowing that Stennar was on that blimp with the information about dark-elves and "evil one returning", unless Joachim was involved with the Hand.

    Also the fact that he is targeted before we reach the town shows that it is not related with Virgil being with us, and if we do not allow Virgil to join us, he is still targeted. So he is a target directly for the Hand.

    And then if the Hand decided to target Joachim it must be because;

    1. He was a member of the Hand, but he was suspected and followed. As he came to the place of the planned assault, hand decided to take him out.
    2. He was part of the contract of mission (which proves later that this is not the case at all)
    3. He was digging into the matter. But only possible way of that is being involved with Hand, as Hand acts with great secrecy.
    4. He was not targeted actually. He was a member of the Hand. He called those Hand agents to his room and killed them there, to make a scene for us to place some blind fate in him (enemy of my enemy).

    Then story advances and we receive a book from Joachim explaining the history of the guild. Nothing suspicious here, so he dug out some information.

    Then story advances even further; and we have a talk with the first blade of the hand. When we refer to the information from the book Joachim gave he gets really surprised, and then he says "you think you know about hand, but you actually know nothing." Then we quote the information in the book and he gets shocked saying "you are probably the only person out of hand who knows this."

    This strengthens the theory that Joachim is somehow involved with Hand.

    I concluded that, one of these options is the case;
    1. All was a huge coincidence. Joachim somehow decided to bring a pilgrim to a town without a temple to study some old scripts a day away from town (that are already in the holy book). And that happened to be exact time where there would be an assault on the blimp at the same place. Joachim was targeted by hand because sent Virgil to the altar; and the Hand misinterpreted that as someone trying to interfere with their plan. And Joachim happened to be very VERY resourceful about finding information.
    2. Joachim got great connections everywhere. He somehow has a connection from the Hand. He learned about the assault, came there with Virgil and sent him for any help. Hand found that out and targeted him, and he learned more about the Hand from his contact.
    3. Joachim was one of the Hand members. He arranged the location of the assault.
    Motive? To bring the prophecy of his religion become real! Either hand found out his motives, or he killed those Hand assassins in his room to invoke trust in us.

    My opinion is that option 1 is waaaaay to much coincidence. And I refuse to believe in that many coincidences.

    Thank you for reading if you have come this far.
     
  2. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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  3. DarkFool

    DarkFool Nemesis of the Ancients

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    I'd think he was a member of the Hand, and either sent Virgil to help people so he could later off them, or he pulled a turn-coat maneuver to try and protect the Chosen One.
     
  4. symban

    symban New Member

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    One day you will grow old, and in your swinging chair stop for a moment and say to yourself "I was too young to admit that he was right.."

    or maybe you wont give a shit at all, who knows. Thanks for reading though, I generally don't bother reading people's gibberish when it is too long.
     
  5. Yuki

    Yuki Well-Known Member

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    took the words straight out my mouth
     
  6. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Being a religious guy, I don't think it's too out of the question for him to have a vision of some sort that lead him to Shrouded Hills when the prophecy was going to come true. I know the majority of the religion is supposed to be false, but you wouldn't think K'an Hua had a hand in the Shrouded Hills prophecy - it probably came from Mannox - so it's from the true parts of the religion. So in my mind it was no coincidence - just the almighty power of God!
     
  7. Leonidus

    Leonidus Member

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    I found it interesting, but also can be explained away.

    Maybe Joachim had a troubled past and left the Hand for religion to better himself. This would give him access to Hand knowledge, connections inside, and a special compassion for Virgil who shares a similar background, explaining his in depth involvement in Virgil's life.

    Regardless, if Joachim is Malochean, you should have him killed.

    Oh wait, you can.

    Love you Arcanum.
     
  8. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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  9. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    I concur, an interesting theory that I had never even thought of.
     
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