Discussion: Political Boundaries

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by UniversalWolf, Nov 13, 2010.

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  1. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf New Member

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    Where are the political boundaries in Arcanum?

    Is Shrouded Hills part of the U.K.? How about Vooriden? Or Stillwater?

    Does the U.K. control the entire coastline down to the river north of Black Root? How far inland does the U.K.'s control extend?

    How much of the Morbihan Plains is controlled by Tarant? Is it any more than a small corridor between Tarant and Ashbury?

    Cumbria must extend north at least as far as Black Root, but how far south from does it extend from Dernholm? And how far inland from the coast?
     
  2. Viktor_Berg

    Viktor_Berg New Member

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    Well, considering we only know the affiliations of the various major settlements in the game (and there aren't nearly enough of those to clearly define borders), I'd say any guesswork regarding this is free game. My guess is that the U.K. occupies most if not all of Stonewall Range north of the river and Morbihan Plains. Considering it was previously occupied by elves, but then abandoned by them due to forest chopping, I'd say it's a safe bet to include said Plains into the territory of U.K.

    Considering Dernholm is pretty far southeast in the map, I'd say the borders of Cumbria are defined by the southern part of the Black Mountains, the river north of Black Root and the coastline.

    Remember, this is a semi-fantasy universe, and in these cases borders were often defined by geographical oddities: mountains, rivers, etc.

    Similarly, Caladon extends from Caladon to at least Roseborough, but probably even further. Not much further, though, considering the area north of the Old Lagoon is a wilderness.

    Shrouded Hills is most likely a member of the U.K. considering they have no problem utilizing steam power.
     
  3. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    One of the ways of retrieving the Bessie Toon Mine deed from Stanton is claiming to be a representative of the Industrial Council, saying that he undervalued the mine and lying that Shrouded Hills wishes to become a part of the Unified Kingdom. This completely surprises Stanton and makes him lose all of his confidence.

    The very idea of Shrouded Hills becoming a part of the Unified Kingdom being a shock for a real estate salesman is proof enough that Shrouded Hills does not belong to the Unified Kingdom, I'd say.
     
  4. Viktor_Berg

    Viktor_Berg New Member

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    Oh, right, I missed that one. Perhaps it's an independent settlement?

    To me it seems like it originated (naturally) from the silver mine itself - i.e. the Toone family founded the village.
     
  5. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf New Member

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    Nice find on that...and it corresponds to my thinking that the U.K. (and the other nations in the game) actually only control small portions of the entire map.

    The way I see it (and I haven't found anything in the game to contradict this so far), the U.K. only controls the immediate area around Tarant, some or all of the coastline down toward Blackroot (possibly siezed from Cumbria in the war), and an undefined length of the Hadrian River valley north of Tarant. Ashbury is isolated from the rest of the nation with the exception of a thin rail corridor across Morbihan.

    I think Vooriden, Stillwater, and Shrouded Hills are all independent.

    One of the reasons I like this theory is that it leaves vast swaths of the map open for wilderness. Another is that it opens the possibility for several other nations to exist, even though they don't come into the story. For example, if Dernholm is or is close to the southern border of Cumbria, the coastline from there to the Black Mountains could hold one or more as yet undefined nations.
     
  6. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Sure, other nations may present in Arcanum. Hell, I'm sure there are a lot of minor ones out there, but don't expect them to be too significant. If they mattered in the big game, they would be et least mentioned, especially by the big political players.

    Logic suggests that any unmentioned nations out there are either hidden (like T'sen-Ang) or insignificant enough for no one to bother (small settlements the size and significance of Shrouded Hills, halfling and gnomish villages, minor dwarven clans, etc).
     
  7. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    Or they simply have not discovered them yet. Australia is a prime example of knowing a body of land existed but because they only scouted the western side they didn't think it was worth colonizing.
     
  8. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    My two-cents = Stillwater is part of Cumbria. Intially Blackroot has the suede-uniformed guards but when it goes back to Cumbria they're replaced by wool-uniformed guards just like the ones in Dernholm, Shrouded Hills and... Stillwater. This makes CUmbria a thin slice on a sandwich between Tarant and Caladon and makes it more of an epic ending (for me) when Caladon joins the UK, but Maximillian still holds his own in the middle.

    Er, I hope that doesn't sound too kinky.

    Also, if a nation is defined as a people capable of making war (as the UN defines it, I believe) then independent nations definitely include the Bedokaan, Kree, Tsen-Ang, Tulla and, of course, the dwarven clans under Loghaire.
     
  9. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe they just wear wool jackets in Stillwater because they are, you know, warm.

    If guard uniforms were the sign of affiliation, Cumbria would not only have Stillwater but Roseborough as well. Not to mention that Ashbury wouldn't be part of the Unified Kingdom. No, it would be part of the Ashbury - Isle of Despair alliance.

    Come to think of it, there are only a few guards in wool jackets in Dornholm while most wear leather armor. All in all, the human nations would consist of:

    Arland: Caladon, Caladon and Caladon
    Unified Kingdom: Tarant unified with itself
    Wool Empire: Black Root, Shrouded Hills and Roseborough
    Leather Alliance: Ashbury and the Isle of Despair
    + two-faced Dernholm, being both part of the Wool Empire and the Leather Alliance
     
  10. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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  11. Elisius Von Pryde

    Elisius Von Pryde New Member

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    I've always been curious; is the continent and surrounding islands all there is in Arcanum? Because one of the pre-set characters you can use refers to being hopeful that the "New world" will be free of prejudice.
    Obviously it's all the player can go to, but it might be a small piece of a larger place?
     
  12. Langolier

    Langolier Member

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    William Radcliffe says his "brother" was overseas, receiving... "treatments". To me the use of "overseas" implies a larger world out there.
     
  13. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    Arcanum must have a foreign continent, if only because the Victorian setting demands one. Victorian culture and literature wouldn't have been the same without the imperialism and colonisation of the era. Let's not forget that Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness was written at the closing of that very era.
     
  14. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    So I think we all agree that there were other land masses or possibly even continents in the world. What do you propose they would of been called? Also what type of people do you think lived there? Judging by the katana that gets sold I am thinking of an oriental culture.
     
  15. Langolier

    Langolier Member

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    There is definitely an eastern civilization out there somewhere. I'm not gonna try and guess what it would be called though.

    I've always been in favor of a "wild west" on the distant shore of another continent somewhere. In fact a few years ago I made my own map for it, I forget what I called it, and I even wrote a bunch of lore for it. Mostly I just copied stuff over from Arcanum but I added some lore and monsters of my own.

    Big foot, a Jersey Devil analogue, an El Dorado analogue (goblin city), Indians (mainly native halfings and elves), and some other traditional tales of the Americas...

    Shame I lost it all when my computer crashed.
     
  16. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    Did you create this map with the Arcanum Map Editor? If you still have a copy of it perhaps Runawayscientist might be interested in it.

    As for the Wild West I'm sure there would be a couple of distant lands, no reason why there wouldn't be an Wild West out there. I think one of the backgrounds mentioned before stated that Arcanum was the "New World" which would be odd simply because the lore states that humans were around on Arcanum for so long before they had their industrial revolution. Would this mean that the other lands are behind or ahead of Arcanum in technology?
     
  17. Viktor_Berg

    Viktor_Berg New Member

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    The cycle of magic and technology on the continent of Arcanum has been completed at least 1 time (maybe more, but the time might have wiped every memory of that), and considering that is pretty natural, I'd say the other continents have a high likelihood of going through the same cycles.

    Considering the several mentions of the other continent(s) have no hints of technological or magickal advantage over Arcanum (we know that elves MIGHT be there, too, if we are to believe the lies of the player character), so I'd say they are either in the middle of or at the start of their own industrial revolutions, too.

    I am actually amazed how many nations Arcanum has, considering it's a tiny 100km * 100km island (50 times smaller than Madagascar), but those are engine limitations. I doubt Troika had it in their minds that SOME DAY, SOMEONE will be calculating the approximate area of the landmass in the game and comparing it to real world.

    Just sayin'
     
  18. Langolier

    Langolier Member

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    Nope, I drew it in Microsoft Paint.

    I would need to see in what context "new world" is being used. After any character traveling to Arcanum for the first time might very well refer to it as a "new world", as in a "new world" of opportunity. Nothing else about Arcanum supports any kind of "new world" theme. The humans of Arcanum are indigenous, after all an the industrial revolution seems to have kicked off here.
     
  19. Viktor_Berg

    Viktor_Berg New Member

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  20. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf New Member

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    Geoffrey mentions he was raised in Caladon, and his branch of the family is from Falsberg, I think, so there's at least one significant settlement somewhere in Caladon that doesn't appear in the game. Also, he took summer vacations on Cattan. Presumably there must be Cattanese settlements as well, since I doubt blue-bloods would be camping in tents on the beach.

    I forget who said it or where, but when I asked about Cumbria some one described it as losing its "dominions" in the plural. It's likely there are former Cumbrian subject-states that don't appear in the game. The coast south of Dernholm seems most likely.

    Captain Teach mentions the Islands of the Weeping Maidens far to the east, and a line of volcanic islands far to the west.
     
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